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Old 01-13-2005, 03:01 PM   #16
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Originally posted by strannix


It's not really open to broad interpretation unless you're very eager to find loopholes. It says no violence, no humilation, no hostages and no executions. Seems clear enough to me.
I was referring to parts a and c specifically : (a) violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture; (c) outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment;

Again, part a references torture, which can be broadly interptreted. Thus the debate. Also terms like outrages, humiliating, and cruel treatment can be broadly interpreted
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Old 01-13-2005, 03:04 PM   #17
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I feel safe in saying that no, I don't support torture under any circumstances whatever.
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Old 01-13-2005, 03:06 PM   #18
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Originally posted by strannix


Well, the problem is that since it was ratified by Congress, the Geneva Conventions carry the full weight of US law. It's not like we can just decide not to abide by them, or throw out the parts we don't like.

If we want to change it, that's a case we have to make to the world.
In the case of Al Queda, The Geneva Convention is not applicable at all. So in this case we throw it out the window. Again, this doesn't mean we throw our moral code and humanity out the window. If we need to get together and create a Geneva Convention II for the 21st century, that's fine. I think it would be very difficult getting everyone to agree to the terms though
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Old 01-13-2005, 03:08 PM   #19
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Originally posted by verte76
I feel safe in saying that no, I don't support torture under any circumstances whatever.
Even If one guy is known to have info that could save millions, including you and your family if he gives it up ?
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Old 01-13-2005, 03:13 PM   #20
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one issue i have with torture is that it simply doesn't work. people will say anything to get you to stop, they'll tell you what you want to hear.

one other thing to consider is that, with AQ members, they really dont' care if they die or not. that's part of the ethos.
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Old 01-13-2005, 03:19 PM   #21
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Originally posted by cardosino


Even If one guy is known to have info that could save millions, including you and your family if he gives it up ?
Aside from opinions on and definitions of torture, I'll bet there are situations, such as the interrogation of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the details of which we will never know.

I think i heard that he talked. How they got him to is anyone's guess.
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Old 01-13-2005, 03:20 PM   #22
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Originally posted by all_i_want
id define torture as anything that brings harm to an individual's psychological or physical integrity. that definition obviously includes sexual, religious humiliation and physical abuse.
Under this definition, FYM is torture.
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Old 01-13-2005, 03:21 PM   #23
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


Under this definition, FYM is torture.

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Old 01-13-2005, 03:22 PM   #24
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


Under this definition, FYM is torture.
It's also addictive, so I'm going to just say no and get back to work
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Old 01-13-2005, 03:53 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Under this definition, FYM is torture.
At times, it might be challenging or heated up, but let's face it, we have a choice to participate in FYM. Even if these prisoners are guilty of war crimes, the abuses I have heard of are sick, they have been the images that represent our country (especially to the Mid-East), and they will take years to live down. Nobody in here is stripping off our clothing just because they don't like where we come from - among horrifyingly worse atrocities, and I would hope that we can all distinguish torture apart from an FYM discussion.

I for one find it hard to believe that forcing prisoners to denounce their belief system will save millions of people.
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Old 01-13-2005, 03:55 PM   #26
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Whoops, double post.
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Old 01-13-2005, 04:26 PM   #27
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If its a right here and now situation and absolutely no time to get the information then I would break a finger to get information.

If it was a longer term thing then I would pump them full of barbituates, use temprature changes, bright lights, loud music and sleep modification (they get to sleep but the times are altered - its not the same as deprivation which drives people insane) - I do not think that this is violating a moral code, saving lives is the name of the game.
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Old 01-13-2005, 04:39 PM   #28
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
If its a right here and now situation and absolutely no time to get the information then I would break a finger to get information.

If it was a longer term thing then I would pump them full of barbituates, use temprature changes, bright lights, loud music and sleep modification (they get to sleep but the times are altered - its not the same as deprivation which drives people insane) - I do not think that this is violating a moral code, saving lives is the name of the game.
Been watching 24 lately?
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Old 01-13-2005, 06:12 PM   #29
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wow, twice in one thread, and a thread about *torture* to boot, but i am still...



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Old 01-13-2005, 06:22 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by cardosino


Even If one guy is known to have info that could save millions, including you and your family if he gives it up ?
Torture doesn't work because they'll say anything to make it stop, including stuff that's not true. So no, not even then because it might be completely false.
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