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Old 09-27-2007, 12:43 PM   #1
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Top 3 Dem Candidates Won't Guarantee Troop Pullout

How will this go over with the MoveOn.org, CodePink, etc. groups?

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070927/D8RTOBOG0.html

By BETH FOUHY

HANOVER, N.H. (AP) - The leading Democratic White House hopefuls conceded Wednesday night they cannot guarantee to pull all U.S. combat troops from Iraq by the end of the next presidential term in 2013.

"I think it's hard to project four years from now," said Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois in the opening moments of a campaign debate in the nation's first primary state.

"It is very difficult to know what we're going to be inheriting," added Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York.

"I cannot make that commitment," said former Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina.

Sensing an opening, Sen. Christopher Dodd of Connecticut and New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson provided the assurances the others would not.

"I'll get the job done," said Dodd, while Richardson said he would make sure the troops were home by the end of his first year in office.

Foreign policy blended with domestic issues at the debate on a Dartmouth College stage, and several of the contenders endorsed payroll tax increases to assure a stable Social Security system.

Sen. Joseph Biden of Delaware and Rep. Dennis Kucinich of Ohio, as well as Dodd, Obama and Edwards all said they would apply the tax to income now exempted.

Richardson said he wouldn't and Clinton refused to say. "I'm not putting anything on the proverbial table" unilaterally, she said.

Current law levies a 6.2 percent payroll tax only on an individual's first $97,500 in annual income.

Biden also said he was willing to consider gradually raising the retirement age, which is now 67.

Kucinich said that while he favors taxing additional income, he wants to return the retirement age to 65, where it stood until the law was changed in 1983.

Health care, and the drive for universal coverage, also figured in the debate.

"I intend to be the health care president," said Clinton, adding she can now succeed at an undertaking that defeated her in 1993 when she was first lady.

But Biden said that unnamed special interests were no more willing to work with Clinton now than they were more than a decade ago.

"I'm not suggesting it's Hillary's fault...It's reality," he said, carefully avoiding a personal attack on the Democrat who leads in the polls.

Biden said a "lot of old stuff comes back" from past battles, adding, "when I say old stuff I mean policy. Policy."

Across the stage, Clinton smiled at that.

The moment was not the only one in which attention turned to the former first lady, a campaign front-runner bidding to become the first woman president.

Asked whether presidential libraries and foundations should disclose their donors, she said she had sponsored legislation requiring it. Asked whether her husband's foundation should voluntary disclose, absent a requirement, she said, "you'll have to ask them."

"I don't talk about my private conversations with my husband," she added.

She seemed to suggest differently at another point, after being asked whether she would ever approve torturing a suspected terrorist to prevent the detonation of a big bomb.

She said no, and Russert said former President Clinton, her husband, once suggested it might be appropriate.

"Well, he's not standing here right now," she said, an edge in her voice.

There is a disagreement, Russert rejoined.

"Well, I'll talk to him later," she said with a smile.

A question about lowering the drinking age from 21 to 18 drew a cheer from the students listening in the Dartmouth auditorium.

And expressions of support only from former Sen. Mike Gravel of Alaska and Kucinich.

The opening question of the two-hour debate instantly plunged the eight contenders into the issue that has dominated all others - the war in Iraq.

With the primary season approaching, all eight have vied with increasing intensity for the support of anti-war voters likely to provide money and organizing muscle as the campaign progresses.

Edwards said his position on Iraq was different from Obama and Clinton, adding he would "immediately drawn down 40,000 to 50,000 troops." That's roughly half the 100,000 that Gen. David Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, has indicated could be stationed there when President Bush's term ends in January 2009.

Edwards sought to draw a distinction between his position and Clinton's, saying she had said recently she wants to continue combat missions in Iraq.

"I do not want to continue combat missions in Iraq," he said.

Clinton responded quickly, saying Edwards had misstated her position. She said she favors the continued deployment of counterterrorism troops, not forces to engage in the type of combat now under way.

Asked whether they were prepared to use force to prevent Iran from becoming a nuclear power, several of the hopefuls sidestepped. Instead, they said, all diplomacy must be exhausted in the effort.

Moderator Tim Russert of NBC News asked about Republican presidential hopeful Rudy Giuliani's pledge to set back Iran by eight to 10 years if it tries to gain nuclear standing.

Biden flashed anger at the mention of the former New York mayor. "Rudy Giuliani doesn't know what the heck he's talking about," said Delaware senator, who is chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

"He's the most uninformed person on foreign policy that's now running for president."

The debate unfolded in the state that has held the first presidential primary in every campaign for generations.

The contest is tentatively scheduled for Jan. 22, but that is expected to change as other states maneuver for early voting position in the campaign calendar.

The debate was broadcast on MSNBC, New Hampshire Public Radio and New England Cable News.
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Old 09-27-2007, 01:25 PM   #2
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Show me a canidate who makes an absolute guarantee and I'll show you a canidate with a foot in their mouth.

No one in their right mind would make a guarantee like that...
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Old 09-27-2007, 01:30 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Show me a canidate who makes an absolute guarantee and I'll show you a canidate with a foot in their mouth.

No one in their right mind would make a guarantee like that...
so are you saying that Dem candidates should then not align themselves with the likes of MoveOn who want an immeadiate withdraw?
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Old 09-27-2007, 01:42 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by MaxFisher


so are you saying that Dem candidates should then not allign themselves with the likes of MoveOn who want an immeadiate withdraw?
Is that what I said?

I said you can't make guarantees. You can say I will do everything in my power to try and get our troops back immediately. But you can't guarantee such immediate maneuvers.

Come on the right's been doing it for years. They get the whole "pro-life" group on their side, but no one does anything to actually end abortion, why? Because they know they can't, it would be too devistating.
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Old 09-27-2007, 01:46 PM   #5
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Who is aligning themselves with MoveOn? Does anyone take money from them or endorse what they say? MoveOn has no influence on my vote, for sure. I got a great concert ticket through them once, by registering with their web site. It was free, I never gave them a penny and I paid full price for the ticket-it was a drawing for a chance to buy them.. The Vote For Change concerts were an enjoyable idea. So if that makes me complicit with them well guilty as charged. I didn't like that ad and I think they are a radical fringe that some Republicans like to try to connect to all Democrats.
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Old 09-27-2007, 01:51 PM   #6
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Politicians say the silliest things. It's so sad.

I like Edwards direct comment. I think that Dodd and Richardson are getting desperate. I don't think the anti-war movement ("Get them all out NOW") is as strong as they think it is.

Biden blasting Rudy is great, and I kinda like Rudy, but saying he'll set back Iran 8-10 years? That's a silly comment. I think Biden, Arlen Spector and Gravel should form an alliance where they just dump truth on other politicians.
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Old 09-27-2007, 01:55 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
Who is aligning themselves with MoveOn? Does anyone take money from them or endorse what they say? MoveOn has no influence on my vote, for sure. I got a great concert ticket through them once, by registering with their web site. It was free, I never gave them a penny and I paid full price for the ticket-it was a drawing for a chance to buy them.. The Vote For Change concerts were an enjoyable idea. So if that makes me complicit with them well guilty as charged. I didn't like that ad and I think they are a radical fringe that some Republicans like to try to connect to all Democrats.
are you serious?

MoveOn raises millions of dollars for Dem candidates.
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Old 09-27-2007, 01:57 PM   #8
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Well where is that information available about who does and how much? Every Democratic candidate takes money from them? Well they take money from anyone and everyone-that's the way it is. And so do Republicans.
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Old 09-27-2007, 02:10 PM   #9
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Re: Top 3 Dem Candidates Won't Guarantee Troop Pullout

Quote:
Originally posted by MaxFisher
[B]How will this go over with the MoveOn.org, CodePink, etc. groups?


not well.

good for the candidates for standing up to the base.

would that the Republicans have the same courage to stand up to the Christofascists.
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Old 09-27-2007, 02:14 PM   #10
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Re: Re: Top 3 Dem Candidates Won't Guarantee Troop Pullout

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Originally posted by Irvine511


not well.

good for the candidates for standing up to the base.

would that the Republicans have the same courage to stand up to the Christofascists.
well, our leading candidate is pro-gay marriage and pro-choice.
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Old 09-27-2007, 02:16 PM   #11
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Re: Re: Re: Top 3 Dem Candidates Won't Guarantee Troop Pullout

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Originally posted by MaxFisher


well, our leading candidate is pro-gay marriage and pro-choice.


and he's backtracking as much as possible, and this might be exactly why he won't win the nomination.

he's not pro marriage equality anymore. he's pro civil union, and he's started stepping back from the amount of rights that would confer.
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Old 09-27-2007, 02:21 PM   #12
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Top 3 Dem Candidates Won't Guarantee Troop Pullout

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Originally posted by Irvine511


and he's backtracking as much as possible, and this might be exactly why he won't win the nomination.

he's not pro marriage equality anymore. he's pro civil union, and he's started stepping back from the amount of rights that would confer.
fine, however the Pat Robertsons of the world will bring up his record as being soft, regardless of his current position.

and, the grandfather of all "Christofacist" issues is abortion and I have not heard Rudy declare himself Pro-Life.
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Old 09-27-2007, 06:23 PM   #13
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Rudy is backtracking because he's still in the primary race. Period. Isn't it classic strategy? Tell your base what they want to hear in the primaries, then moderate in the general election?

I agree that he isn't a sure thing like Hillary is, as their party's nominee.
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Old 09-27-2007, 06:48 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bluer White
Rudy is backtracking because he's still in the primary race. Period. Isn't it classic strategy? Tell your base what they want to hear in the primaries, then moderate in the general election?

I agree that he isn't a sure thing like Hillary is, as their party's nominee.

you're right, Rudy is going to inch back to the center if/when he's the nominee. but i think Mitt is going to spend as much as he can to make sure that the base knows where he stands on "guns, god, and gays." which makes me wonder if there might not be some sort of last minute rally-round-McCain. who knows?

what i'm finding impressive about HRC is that she isn't pandering, but i'm not so sure, yet, that she's a sure thing. Obama is outfundraising her, and he gets the crowds. i think her support might be wide, but not deep.

while i'm fine with her, and think she's tremendously knowledgeable and skilled at actually governing (as opposed to our Exxon Valdez president), i'm still in the Obama camp.
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Old 09-27-2007, 11:22 PM   #15
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I think both sides have learned from "read my lips.......no new taxes"

No one will guarantee squat
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