Too Pro-Life for Pro-Choicers, Too Pro-Choice for Pro-Lifers (FYM Challenge Spinoff)

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bonoman said:
herer in canada you can get the pill and dont even have to give names or have a parent constent (if under 18). I cant believe that the US gov't doesnt have that installed in your country.
heh, believe it. i really hate it, as i'm trying to do my own part as a responsible citizen and take care of my own body, meaning i'll try my best to not get knocked up, then expect the government to foot my bill. next thing i know, insurance companies will stop paying for our annual exams and mammograms! :laugh:
 
That is a contradiction in law then bonoman if your laws on abortion are similar to the US. As it stands, the US as a result of RoevWade, dont see it as manslaughter. Actually, from a legal standpoint, how does that work in the US? A woman can abort with the support of the law, but what if she is involved in an accident? Can a negligent driver for example, be charged for manslaughter by the courts and subsequently sued by this woman?
 
Angela Harlem said:
That is a contradiction in law then bonoman if your laws on abortion are similar to the US. As it stands, the US as a result of RoevWade, dont see it as manslaughter. Actually, from a legal standpoint, how does that work in the US? A woman can abort with the support of the law, but what if she is involved in an accident? Can a negligent driver for example, be charged for manslaughter by the courts and subsequently sued by this woman?


1. Who said the current abortion laws made any SENSE????!?!

2. While you may have strong feelings about capital punishment, and I myself have serious doubts about it as an effective deterrent, the comparison between ending a guilty convicted murderers life (which has precedent in the bible) and murdering an innocent baby, that just makes me sick.

Again, look at a baby in an ultrasound. Then tell me that isn't life worth treating with every much rights as you and I have.

I know I was hooked when I saw my son. And my daughter. :)
 
Re: this will be long.

Wasn't aware you could have abortions in the second trimester-thanks for the correction.

KhanadaRhodes said:
i figured i might as well weigh in too. i'm pro-choice. i won't say that in a similar situation, i'd get an abortion, but i respect the fact that each woman should be able to choose. in a country built on allowing so many freedoms, i think this is just another one.

true, i don't think it'd be right for a girl who sleeps around, insisting on never using a condom (i've encountered several women like this, one of which did get pregnant), and getting pregnant to turn around and have an abortion - to undo her oops! but, legal is legal, and if abortions are legal, women will then be allowed to have them, regardless of her reasons.

adoption is always an option, but i dunno. i look at it this way: there's already so many children in orphanages, waiting to be adopted, why add more? however, again, i respect a woman's decision to not abort her baby, and to put it up for adoption. again, it's great that a woman who gets pregnant but does not want her baby has many choices to choose from.

also, what about teenagers who get pregnant? so many view it that when a woman gets pregnant and knows she doesn't want to keep the child (as in raise it as her own), then adoption's easy! no it's not. a 16 year old girl who gets pregnant then gets yanked out of school. she has to be pregnant for nine long months. schools here have a rule where a pregnant woman can only stay in school for so long before she has to get home schooled. is that fair for her? she runs the risk of being a drop-out almost as much as a 16 year old who raises her baby. not to mention what happens when she sees her baby after it's born.

how would you feel if you saw your little baby you just gave birth to, for the first and only time. i know many women then change their minds and want to keep it. i know i probably would. to see this tiny little creature, knowing it was a part of me for nine long months, and will always be a part of me, i don't think i could bear giving it up. essentially, i think for teenagers, more than any demographic, legal abortions are most essential to them.

also, since i saw people bring up euthanasia, i thought i'd touch on it as well. i don't see the point in having a person live their entire life in pain if they don't want to. personally, i'd make it legal, but with several stipulations. for example, it could only be up to the person to decide, and they'd have to be of sound mind and body to declare they'd want this for themselves (essentially, it would have to be in their will or some other legal document, so not anyone can decide to pull the plug, or have someone delirious with pain and be "oh sure, kill me, fine" and not necessarily mean it.) beforehand. maybe in rare cases, like if they were in some freak accident or something, and never had the opportunity to speak up, a family member could decide. i dunno.

in the case of euthanasia, sure, i'd do it. for myself, that is. if something ever happened to me and i was despondent and would be that way for the rest of my life, i'd want doctors to try whatever they could, and when everything was exhausted, leave it up to my loved ones to decide if and when to pull the plug. i wouldn't want to be a burden to people (especially financially, i don't see the point in spending thousands a year keeping me alive when i don't even know i am), i'd want to let them decide if there's a point in keeping me alive.

in the case of abortion, i don't know. i don't know if i could ever go through with it. especially knowing how many times my mother tried to get pregnant and how many miscarriages she had, i don't think it'd be right to turn around and almost rub that in her face, like "look how hard it was for you to get pregnant, and how easy it is for me! and look how much easier it is for me to get unpregnant! ha!" i know it's only my decision and i shouldn't let outside influences pressure me, but even disregarding that, i just don't think i'd have the guts to do it. but i like knowing i could get one if i had to, and not have to get some shady person to ram a coat hanger up there and abort the baby. i like having that choice, if i needed it.

i look at abortion and euthanasia the same way in some cases. what i mean is, what if a mother was told their child, if born, would be essentially a vegetable? never being able to do anything for themselves, and being brain dead? they wouldn't even be aware of their surroundings or know they're even alive. what kind of life is that? i don't know if i would be able to handle knowing my child would live such a horrible life. i just don't think it'd be fair for the child.

essentially, both come down to the person's decision. not some doctor or nurse, or the annoyed daughter sick of taking care of their grandmother with alzheimer's, but the person themselves. with abortion, the mother should think for herself and her child, and with euthanasia, it should be up to the person in question. no one else.

oh, and pax is right. i've only recently gotten my health insurance back. i've been paying through the nose for my birth control without any insurance. $30 a month! the shots are MUCH easier (and cheaper, it's only a little more for three months' worth, and no remembering to take a pill, but it wreacked havoc on my health and livelihood.) to take. now there's even the patch. i can only get birth control for free if it's shown that i need it for health reasons. it worked back when i was single, because that's why i was taking it. now that i'm married, they won't touch it. how is this fair? it disgusts me that people will impose their opinions and beliefs on others, like only unprotected sex is okay. condoms aren't free (or cheap), and neither is any other form of birth control. all this because a government not based on religion at all thinks it's immoral for a woman to use any form of birth control.

Agree with all you said, both on abortion and euthanasia.

Sting2, I wouldn't consider that murder, no.

Angela
 
gabrielvox said:



1. Who said the current abortion laws made any SENSE????!?!

2. While you may have strong feelings about capital punishment, and I myself have serious doubts about it as an effective deterrent, the comparison between ending a guilty convicted murderers life (which has precedent in the bible) and murdering an innocent baby, that just makes me sick.

Again, look at a baby in an ultrasound. Then tell me that isn't life worth treating with every much rights as you and I have.

I know I was hooked when I saw my son. And my daughter. :)

1. Not me! Thats what I am wondering though, is how it is ok under the law to abort the fetus, yet also under the law, a person can be charged with manslughter for involuntarily ending a fetus's life. It doesn't make sense because it is stupid.

2. I may have not written the whole thing well, where you responded with point 2, I meant it as a continuation of what you said in piont one. Put simply, I can drink drive, have an accident with a pregnant woman, she can lose that baby and I can be charged with manslaughter. I can have that accident, her and the unborn fetus are ok, the next day, she can have an abortion and wont be charged. That is the contradiction which shows the law is nothing short of inconsistent.

On a side note though re: capital punishment, I dont feel comfortable with the idea of it. I'm no advocate of it, but those who do recieve that from their jury of peers...I dont really shed a tear. They dont emote sympathy from me as they committed a heinous crime to get themselves in that spot. I dunno.

But back to abortion, I saw my baby's heartbeat on the ultrasound at 10 weeks. I couldn't see the baby clearly but I saw the heartbeat alright!
I know a couple of women who have had an abortion and only spoken in depth about it with one of them. I can never condemn what she did, for to speak to her, I know she is her own Judge and Jury and is suffering so dearly. 6 years later, it kills her to know what she did and to have to live with it for the rest of her life. I dont think she would do it again if she had the choice all over. She had a child the year before in the very same circumstances that brought about the aborting of this second pregnancy, and while she loves the daughter with all the love she has in her being, she knows she did not bring this first child into an ideal or even remotely acceptable environment. She is out of that situation now, but 6 years ago did not have a crystal ball to know where she would end up. Life was bleak. She acted in fear and fear of what would happen to her second child. No justification on her part, just fear and ignorance of where her life would lead to this day.

She is human and made a grave mistake that she is paying for. She needed/needs love and support, guidance and courage and the right to have forgiveness for making a terrible mistake that us humans do all the time. We all have that right.

Her story is not unique. It guides the decision in many cases to choose abortion, but nothing ever, no circumstances can make an abortion ok, or the right choice. Its never the right choice. Its a wrong choice of many other wrong choices to make in situations like that.
 
Re: this will be long.

KhanadaRhodes said:


if something ever happened to me and i was despondent and would be that way for the rest of my life, i'd want doctors to try whatever they could, and when everything was exhausted, leave it up to my loved ones to decide if and when to pull the plug.


I'm despondent pretty much everyday and have been my entire life, but I'd pretty upset if someone thought I should be euthanized!!!!!

Did you mean "unresponsive"? ;)
 
Angela Harlem said:



She is human and made a grave mistake that she is paying for. She needed/needs love and support, guidance and courage and the right to have forgiveness for making a terrible mistake that us humans do all the time. We all have that right.

Her story is not unique. It guides the decision in many cases to choose abortion, but nothing ever, no circumstances can make an abortion ok, or the right choice. Its never the right choice. Its a wrong choice of many other wrong choices to make in situations like that.

Hey Angela sorry if I misread your last post, this most recent one certainly clears it up for me, and I wanted to commend you for what I quoted above especially. We all make mistakes and definately we need support from others rather than condemnation when we've realized our error!
 
bonosloveslave said:
Abortion doesn't 'unrape' a woman or remove the violence that has been perpetrated against her. Why complicate the crime of rape with the crime of taking an innocent child's life? Or, to put it another way: Why should the child pay with its life because its father is a rapist?

you know what, thats a really great thought! ive never heard anyone put it this way before.

i think everyone knows how i feel about the subject. :sigh:
 
wish i read this over the weekend..(i h

Regarding the rape issue- Everyone is assuming this child is going to be a burden, an ugly reminder, to the mother every single day if his/her existence. WHY? Why do we assume that? Why don't we assume that a child can actually bring the mother joy and comfort, perhaps his/her life consoling her in a way nothing else can. "Good out of evil" sort of thing. But it's easy to assume "oh what an awful reminder- get rid of it" instead of "this awful thing happened to me, but perhaps a beauty can be born of it"...

and even if the woman doesn't want to be a mother, I'm sure there is another woman out there who does! Adoption!

Originally posted hiphopwhenhiphopdrovethebigcars
But those babies can?t have an equal share of the decision that is to be made in a tough case. The baby can?t speak yet,the baby can?t raise a finger to show you it wants to live, the baby can?t sign on the dotted line.

Neither can 5 month olds. I agree with BLS.. great, great words BLS. :up:
 
bonoman said:
I'm sorry i dont have time to read the whole thread but i was just wondering, after reading the first comment here.

Do the American gov't supply birht control for free?

Not where I live. I know women who pay $35 a month for birth control, and it's used to regulate their cycles and relieve severe cramps.

What I want to know is why, in this day & age, is our birth control medicines so archaic? A pill a day, that if you forget one you could be in danger of pregnancies? That's the best we can do? -I know there is the shot every three months but there are side affects from it, and out of my friends, none of our doctors have offered that usage to us. I'm not talking about condoms b/c those can be used incorrectly/break. I'm talking about pills or shots.. and I think it's pathetic that we're so far behind in this field.

If men were the ones carrying the babies & worrying about pregnancy we'd have advanced medicine for this by now! :scream:
 
then theres the whole question as to why the general public is so obsessed with sex.

uh, may i ask why?

mastering the bate is better than doing something stupid and regrettable.

the people who have sex all the time and then have an oops and decide to abort should get the shit kicked out of em.

ill be first in line with a gun and a pack of sandwiches.
 
meegannie said:
I'm despondent pretty much everyday and have been my entire life, but I'd pretty upset if someone thought I should be euthanized!!!!!

Did you mean "unresponsive"? ;)
:laugh: yes. that's what i get for typing this stuff at like 2 am! :D

oliveu2cm said:
Not where I live. I know women who pay $35 a month for birth control, and it's used to regulate their cycles and relieve severe cramps.

What I want to know is why, in this day & age, is our birth control medicines so archaic? A pill a day, that if you forget one you could be in danger of pregnancies? That's the best we can do? -I know there is the shot every three months but there are side affects from it, and out of my friends, none of our doctors have offered that usage to us. I'm not talking about condoms b/c those can be used incorrectly/break. I'm talking about pills or shots.. and I think it's pathetic that we're so far behind in this field.
same here. that's exactly how much my birth control comes to. i hate the pill. i've been on that tri-monthly shot (depo provera) and it's not fun. any side effects you can have on the pill you will have on depo, and they'll be amplified. after two doses i couldn't take it anymore. i had headaches every day, and was bitch supreme. imagine pms every day, times a thousand.

thursday i'm going to see about the patch. since it's made by the same people who make my pill, i'm hoping the side effects are similar, and not nearly as bad as depo. i take enough pills as it is (i also take topamax every day to prevent headaches) so i'd love to not take that pill. plus, it'd be okay for me to miss a dose of topamax, but it's not to miss a pill. blah. :|
 
Re: wish i read this over the weekend..(i h

Olive, (with all due respect ;) ) I think this is a very idealistic and beautiful way of looking at things, and you may be right....but I really don't think that is human nature at all. Do you mean to tell me that if you were raped, and you had a boy, especially one that looked like the rapist that you wouldn't have horrible flashbacks?

And Gabriel, I know you mean well but your baby was WANTED so of course you were going to be excited to hear the ultrasound. How would you feel if (God forbid) your own wife were raped and got pregnant? Can you honestly say you could stand to have that baby inside her and would listen happily to the ultrasound? What if your daughter were raped and she were only 12 or 14? Girls go through puberty earlier and earlier nowadays...would you put her through that? (this is a question for everyone really).

And what if the girl/woman is pregnant as a result of incest? Everyone knows what happens with inbreeding. That is not only unfair to the mother but to the child too.

I am not at all saying that abortion is great. I do not think it should be used as fallback from faulty birth control, and I also agree with BLS about the fetus being an innocent life form. I think any loss of life, whether it be the POTENTIAL of life in a fetus, or an animal or a person is tragic. But when it comes to rape, incest or the health and safety of the mother, I think the living breathing mother has to take precedence over the collection of cells that is an early pregnancy (first few weeks). It is really much easier to be a holier than thou armchair philosophiser (for all of us - not singling anyone out) than to actually live in the shoes of some of these women.

I also agree with Olive - If men were bearing the children, it would be a different story!

oliveu2cm said:
Regarding the rape issue- Everyone is assuming this child is going to be a burden, an ugly reminder, to the mother every single day if his/her existence. WHY? Why do we assume that? Why don't we assume that a child can actually bring the mother joy and comfort, perhaps his/her life consoling her in a way nothing else can. "Good out of evil" sort of thing. But it's easy to assume "oh what an awful reminder- get rid of it" instead of "this awful thing happened to me, but perhaps a beauty can be born of it"...

and even if the woman doesn't want to be a mother, I'm sure there is another woman out there who does! Adoption!



Neither can 5 month olds. I agree with BLS.. great, great words BLS. :up:
 
Mrs. Edge said:
I also agree with Olive - If men were bearing the children, it would be a different story!
i agree. i've seen several men weigh in on this issue. they seem to mainly think abortion is wrong. while i respect their opinions (because everyone is entitled to their own opinion, after all), i don't think it's entirely fair, i suppose that's the right word. i'm talking all men in general, so i'm not referring to anyone in particular. :) but it's easy for a man to say it's wrong. they don't have to carry this unwanted baby inside of them.

but as i said, to each his own. :D
 
This'll be a long one.

I consider abortion in 99% of cases morally reprehensible, when you get into rape and the like things get messy and grey though no matter the case abortion is murder. In the case of say a fourteen year old girl who is raped and will likely have sever complications from the pregancy and may die then abortion may be a necessary evil to save a life. Rape in general I'm of the why should the fetus suffer for its father's crime school of thought. In no way will the whole situation be nice. BUt think of it this way. Why add the trauma of an abortion to the trauma of being raped? However I can understand the arguments a long the line of why should a woman give up nine months of her life on top of the initial violation. Again be ing male I cna't pass any judgements or give any answers except that it not a cut a dried thing either way .

However such things are fringe cases and should be dealt with seperately and on a case by case basis. In the vast majority of cases an abortion results either from carelessness or failed contraception, not rape. In those cases we have doctors handing out a brutal and horribly invasive and highly traumatic medical proceedure like candy. Heck back 20 years ago (well 21 I suppose) when I was concieved my parents were older (38) so what was the doctor's first suggestion. "Well there could be some deformity so abortion would be a good idea" despite the fac that my parents had been trying for two years to conceive! Even if a human life were not a risk I think this whole system should be called morally reprehensible. Even more so considering the human life factor.

By say 8 weeks or so the preborn have a nervous system and therefore can feel pain. Given the rather nasty details of an abortion (which you don't hear about) the Fetus at this point gets to have a rather painful and unpleasant death, one I don't think we'd wish on any animals. Even if you don't consider the embryo human I don't see how one could turn a blind eye to such an act of cruelty to something that is rather plainly alive.

The effects on the mother have been mentioned by others and are not nice by anyone's books. Again the fetus as human issue aside, how could anyone consider the way in which abortions are haded out by doctors as anything but immoral and irresponsible given the consequences WHICH NEVER GET TOLD.

So even if you don't consider the fetus human I can't see how anyone could consider an abortion a reasonable action.

That said I don't favour making abortion illegal as it woild have some unfortunate side effects nearly as bad as the ones now. One cannot legislate morality. The goal should be to create a society in which abortions are legal but where none are performed.

What I do believe must happen immediately is that doctors MUST be retrained and made to give ALL of the facts and options so that mothers can make a decision and be given the time to make it. Even if you believe abortions (up to the second trimester)are not wrong in any sense I should hope you would agree that they should not be handed out like candy as they are now. An abortion is not like having your appendix out and it is even less like curing an infection. If you have no problem with the way the system is administered now well I have nothing further to say to you on this matter.

In the end the abortion issue is a symptom of greater societal ills. An overall lack of responsiblity and people's inability to think about consequences. Such as the concept that teenagers having sex is an okay thing.

All moral aspects aside I think it is plainly a very bad thing. Too many have their first sexual experiences under pressure, in states of ignorance and before they are emotionally mature enough to handle it. The number of girls I know who have been seriously fucked up by sex in their teens tells me this. The same goes for guys too, except it just doesn't get talked about. Too often sex is bandied about like it were nothing and again morality aside its not. It has massive emotional and psychologial effects that go far beyond the pysical event itself that are no fully understood. Its not just about fun. Sure that's part of it but biologically it is one heck of a lot more. This is further compounded by the extreme health risk to under aged girls as well as the developmental damage. No contraceptive is perfect. It's not worth the risk.

Rather than bandying abortion as a solution and saying teens will be teens we need to look at the much larger problems.

Well i've talked more than enough so I just let that one example sit where it is. My point is just that Abortion is a symptom of much larger scoietal issues that go a lot further than sex alone. We have a long way to go as a race and I think the hihgly imperfect nature of this proceedure and its implimentation should show that.

one last thing adressing Melon. I think anyone who is pro-life and supports capital punishment is cracked. The two are contradictory to the core.
 
i read somewhere that having an abortion is about as signifcant as killing a fly.

at about that time, i lost hope in the human race.
 
Re: Re: wish i read this over the weekend..(i h

Mrs. Edge said:
?

And Gabriel, I know you mean well but your baby was WANTED so of course you were going to be excited to hear the ultrasound. How would you feel if (God forbid) your own wife were raped and got pregnant? Can you honestly say you could stand to have that baby inside her and would listen happily to the ultrasound? What if your daughter were raped and she were only 12 or 14? Girls go through puberty earlier and earlier nowadays...would you put her through that? (this is a question for everyone really).


I've quite a simple answer that question actually. As this type of situation represents less than 1% of the reason why most women opt for an abortion, I feel thusly: why should the baby pay for the sick error of the rapist?

Rather than kill the baby, I would KILL THE RAPIST. I'm generally a pacifist but when it comes to my loved ones being raped or abused I would have no mercy. The baby could grow up and be loved, there is no reason to kill it. I would then do everything I could to make sure the baby was cared for.

Many men take care of children that their wives bring to term when they are not their own for reasons such as they are impotent, or maybe their wife cheated on them and they forgive her. Many others (my step dad included) take care of a woman's children and love them as their own even when they are not their obligation.

I think I could find a way to overlook my pride and find love for a child that is not mine, honestly I do.
 
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gabrielvox said:
Rather than kill the baby, I would KILL THE RAPIST.

Now you're sounding like a pro-lifer!

:sexywink:

Melon
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: wish i read this over the weekend..(i h

melon said:


Now you're sounding like a pro-lifer!

:sexywink:

Melon

Yes, I realize to some this may put me in the catagory of one of those guys that runs around sniping at abortion doctors...sortof a conondrum really...

But I've already made up my mind about that, pregnancy or no pregnancy. Anyone touches my child, they better fucking pray the law gets to them before I do TRUST ME.
 
Re: Re: wish i read this over the weekend..(i h

Mrs. Edge said:
Olive, (with all due respect ;) ) I think this is a very idealistic and beautiful way of looking at things, and you may be right....but I really don't think that is human nature at all. Do you mean to tell me that if you were raped, and you had a boy, especially one that looked like the rapist that you wouldn't have horrible flashbacks?

I definitely don't think it would be easy. I think recovering from a rape is hard enough, never mind coming to terms with being pregnant. but we never stop to think that perhaps something good could come of such an evil situation. It's too bad b/c time puts pressure on the woman to make a decision (keep or not keep the baby/fear/hatred) and it seems easier to not keep it when she is recovering from such a trama..... but yeah, it is idealistic to think of the child turning into a blessing. But most things that work out in a good way may have seemed idealistic thinking before it happened.
 
Well, I can certainly understand why you would feel that way Gabriel...

Although there is no excuse for pro lifers to harm the abortion doctors, they are just doing their jobs!

I think all rapists and child molesters should be castrated automatically. And I wouldn't feel too sorry for them if it was without an anaesthetic!
 
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Re: Re: wish i read this over the weekend..(i h

Rapists and molesters should be thrown in a tiny jail cell for the rest of their lives. They can rot there, for all I care.

Mrs. Edge said:
Olive, (with all due respect ;) ) I think this is a very idealistic and beautiful way of looking at things, and you may be right....but I really don't think that is human nature at all. Do you mean to tell me that if you were raped, and you had a boy, especially one that looked like the rapist that you wouldn't have horrible flashbacks?

And Gabriel, I know you mean well but your baby was WANTED so of course you were going to be excited to hear the ultrasound. How would you feel if (God forbid) your own wife were raped and got pregnant? Can you honestly say you could stand to have that baby inside her and would listen happily to the ultrasound? What if your daughter were raped and she were only 12 or 14? Girls go through puberty earlier and earlier nowadays...would you put her through that? (this is a question for everyone really).

And what if the girl/woman is pregnant as a result of incest? Everyone knows what happens with inbreeding. That is not only unfair to the mother but to the child too.

I am not at all saying that abortion is great. I do not think it should be used as fallback from faulty birth control, and I also agree with BLS about the fetus being an innocent life form. I think any loss of life, whether it be the POTENTIAL of life in a fetus, or an animal or a person is tragic. But when it comes to rape, incest or the health and safety of the mother, I think the living breathing mother has to take precedence over the collection of cells that is an early pregnancy (first few weeks). It is really much easier to be a holier than thou armchair philosophiser (for all of us - not singling anyone out) than to actually live in the shoes of some of these women.

I also agree with Olive - If men were bearing the children, it would be a different story!


Exactly.

Some women may be able to carry out their pregnancy and have a kid and be perfectly fine despite the fact that it was conceived out of rape.

But others won't be able to handle that-some will have terrible flashbacks and it would be painful.

Like you said-none of us here, as far as I know, have even been in the shoes of the women who have abortions-who are we to be judging them? They have their reasons-while we may not understand or agree with those reasons, that's their business to deal with, not ours.

Pro-lifers are so quick to condemn the women having abortions-these women don't need to be hated, they need support and understanding and need to know there's someone there for them-it's not like this is an easy thing to do, not like they're cold-hearted people (well, most of them aren't, anyway).

And Khanada's right-men are sitting here weighing in-easy for them to say, they aren't the ones who have to go through 9 months of a pregnancy.

Only when men are able to carry babies would they understand things better.

Not saying they can't voice their opinions, but they have no idea what it's like, nor will they ever know what it's like, to be pregnant.

Angela
 
Re: Re: Re: wish i read this over the weekend..(i h

Moonlit_Angel said:


Like you said-none of us here, as far as I know, have even been in the shoes of the women who have abortions-who are we to be judging them? They have their reasons-while we may not understand or agree with those reasons, that's their business to deal with, not ours.

Pro-lifers are so quick to condemn the women having abortions-these women don't need to be hated, they need support and understanding and need to know there's someone there for them-it's not like this is an easy thing to do, not like they're cold-hearted people (well, most of them aren't, anyway).

And Khanada's right-men are sitting here weighing in-easy for them to say, they aren't the ones who have to go through 9 months of a pregnancy.

Only when men are able to carry babies would they understand things better.

Not saying they can't voice their opinions, but they have no idea what it's like, nor will they ever know what it's like, to be pregnant.

Angela

Must say I agree with your points. You sure as heel wont see me marching infront of an abortion clinic. Asside from being judgemental (breaking an express command by our Lord there people) such things are only counter productive. You can probably count the number of women who didn't have abortions because of those protests on one hand. If someone I knew was thinking about an abortion I'd talk toher one on one, make sure she knew the facts, listen to her situation, and if she were on her own offer any help I could give. And if she still went for it I'd stay with her because in the aftermath of what she is about to do she's gonna need some help some time. The best way to stop abortions is to just be a Christian (I'm adressing the Christian pro-lifers here - if you're not a Christian do the same thing). You'll change a heck of a lot more hearts by love than with hate. I'd still be deeply saddened and I'd have to say somewhat angry but hey chewing someone out doesn't accomplish anything.
 
I have a huge problem with both these labels. Pro-life and Pro-choice are nothing but slogans meant to put the other side down. If you are for abortion you are against life! If you are against it you are against choice! This is garbage. How many pro-life are for the death penalty and euthanasia, or war? How many pro-choice oppose other choices, and would deny rights to others, like gun ownership, tobacco use, or even the decision of wearing a seat belt in your own vehicle? So I say dispense with the crap and get down to what you REALLY want to say!

I think too much is made of the rape/incest/threat to mother's life/deformity issue. I think even if abortion were illegal there would be exceptions for those. So that leaves the 98% or so abortions performed on healthy women getting rid of healthy kids for such shallow reasons as 'my boyfriend will be mad' or 'I want to buy more neat stuff and get a better job first.' Millions of people have grown up in less than perfect situations with little money and end up just fine. If everybody waited until their life was perfect before having a child, the human race would die out in a hurry. I'd say most of us would never have been born if there was always one more better job, one more cool vacation, one more fancy car for everyone's parents to get before they 'burden' themselves with a baby. Besides, if you don't want to damn kid, put it up for adoption. College papers are full of ads from begging childless couples.

The bottom line to me is, I just don't believe someone's selfish 'choice' takes precedent over a life. I don't give a flying fuck what somebody 'chooses' to do with her life instead of having the child, it's still killing and that's wrong. Of course, no one ever wants to hear the details of the destruction of the child's body, but that doesn't mean it's not there. I also think there should be no argument over the parental consent thing. If you get sick, break your leg or get in a car wreck, they have to have your parents' consent, so why not abortion? Because the parents might 'get mad?' Would they not be mad over the wrecked car or breaking your leg at your friend's house jumping off the roof playing Jackass? It just doesn't make sense!

As a girl, I this is what gets me: With all the birth control methods and info out there today, besides the fact that there are only about 3 days a month you're fertile, there are far too many abortions. If it were limited to extreme and tragic situations, maybe some would be more careful and stop using it as birth control or an easy out. I'm sorry, but I personally know girls who have done this. I just get so sick of it being justified because people want to do it anyway and not feel guilty.
 
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