Tom Petty is one of my new heroes - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-12-2002, 06:38 PM   #16
Blue Crack Addict
 
joyfulgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 16,615
Local Time: 02:22 AM
Re: Re: Tom Petty is one of my new heroes

Quote:
Originally posted by boywonder

Petty has $55 concert tickets (for his current tour), he's a multimillionaire and a major pothead. Let's not pretend like he's a revolutionary. He's just another artist biting the hands that feeds him and then continuing to feed. I guess it's become pretty cool for artists to launch this kind of hypocrisy.
How is he hypocritical? He obviously doesn't give a damn whether he's banned or not. He made the record and what happens to it after that doesn't matter much to him--he knows his fans will buy it whether they hear it on the radio or not. And he admitted making millions at a fair ticket price--the point being, you CAN make millions, if that's what you want, without ripping fans off at every single turn. And what does being a pothead have to do with anything?

Indeed, Tom Petty still rocks after all these years.
__________________

__________________
joyfulgirl is offline  
Old 11-12-2002, 06:43 PM   #17
Blue Crack Addict
 
joyfulgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 16,615
Local Time: 02:22 AM
Re: Re: Tom Petty is one of my new heroes

Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


This is a growing problem in our culture. Major apparel chains market thong underwear to elementary school age girls. At my son’s kindergarten and 1st grade talent shows, some of the girls were dressed up to look “sexy”.

When will parents actually parent their children? If parents don’t parent, the marketers will have their field day.
Yes, I see similar things with my sisters' kids. My neice was batting her lashes at boys and trying to be sexy since she was 5 and she doesn't even watch much TV at home. Sexiness is so deeply integrated into our pop culture that my sister doesn't even know specifically where her kids get these ideas. All she knows is that it's not in her home. But once she sends them to school there's not much she can do except damage-control. Man, I really don't envy parents today in that respect.
__________________

__________________
joyfulgirl is offline  
Old 11-12-2002, 07:35 PM   #18
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 09:22 AM
Tom Petty is great, but if he were really charging a fair ticket price, every single one of his shows would be a sellout. Tom Petty like every artist out there, except temporarily Pearl Jam, who charge what they are worth market wise. But lets just say that Tom Petty does charge that "fair ticket price" and all his shows start to sellout. In come the ticket brokers and scalpers who will buy up the tickets and sell them at the correct market price. Money that would have gone to Petty if he had charged the correct price, now goes to the Scalpers and brokers.
__________________
STING2 is offline  
Old 11-13-2002, 05:22 AM   #19
The Fly
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 36
Local Time: 09:22 AM
Re: Re: Re: Tom Petty is one of my new heroes

Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl


How is he hypocritical? He obviously doesn't give a damn whether he's banned or not. He made the record and what happens to it after that doesn't matter much to him--he knows his fans will buy it whether they hear it on the radio or not. And he admitted making millions at a fair ticket price--the point being, you CAN make millions, if that's what you want, without ripping fans off at every single turn. And what does being a pothead have to do with anything?

Indeed, Tom Petty still rocks after all these years.
He's a hypocrite for charging upwards of $65 for his crappy concert tickets. The fact that bands\acts like Streisand, U2 and Madonna sell tickets for even more relative to Petty doesn't make his ticket prices necessarily reasonable. He's a hypocrite for attacking radio when radio was ESSENTIAL to his popularity.

I laughed when he talked about morals and truth going out the window in favor of profits. When the hell was rock and roll about morals and truth? Anyone look to Tom Petty for moral guidance? I certainly don't look for my "truth" in music.

He doesn't deserve to be on a high horse. No popular musician should be allowed to bite the hand that feeds them (that created their popularity and $$$) and ALSO get praised for it. It's like a yuppie kid loving RATM.

The pothead part was just a swipe at pothead musicians in general. I get a good laugh anytime Dave Matthews or Snoop Dogg start to comment on politics. The pot has definitely worked its "magic".

So let's get to the point, let's roll another joint
Let's head on down the road
There's somewhere I gotta go
And you don't know how it feels
You don't know how it feels to be me

Yes, I don't know how it feels to be you. Responsible lyrics? I guess rolling another joint would be the RESPONSIBLE thing to do (thick Tina Fey-like sarcasm)
__________________
boywonder is offline  
Old 11-13-2002, 11:39 AM   #20
Blue Crack Addict
 
joyfulgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 16,615
Local Time: 02:22 AM
Whatever. You have your high horse, he has his. To say 'no popular musician should be allowed to bite the hand that feeds them" is like saying they don't have the right to criticize, which everyone certainly does. I certainly exercise the right to constructively criticize the hand that feeds me if I think it can be better. Maybe you don't think his criticisms are constructive and you certainly have a right to that opinion. Also, his concerts are probably not considered crappy by the fans that are happy to pay the $65. Most of my friends are disgusted that U2 charges $130 but I can afford it and it's worth it to me and I tell them to mind their own business. What's fair in ticket prices is generally pretty subjective.
__________________
joyfulgirl is offline  
Old 11-13-2002, 11:50 AM   #21
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 04:22 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
In come the ticket brokers and scalpers who will buy up the tickets and sell them at the correct market price.
Or they overcharge them to the point that it is financially profitable to throw the rest of the tickets in the trash.

I'm shocked that you can even consider this a "market," because that would require something we once called "competition." We have one ticket seller monopoly, and ticket resellers that are always more expensive. But I guess what we learned from the 1980s is that anything goes?

I only find it amusing that the only difference between ticket brokers and scalpers is that it is a business versus an individual--and ticket brokers are legal, while scalpers are not. Brokers should be illegal just as scalpers are.

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 11-13-2002, 12:07 PM   #22
I serve MacPhisto
 
unforgettableFOXfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,053
Local Time: 04:22 AM
I think the fact that I posted this article in Bang And the Clatter, and passed around a copy to my friends should indicate where I stand on the matter. Tom Petty kicks ass. Nuff said.
__________________
unforgettableFOXfire is offline  
Old 11-13-2002, 01:39 PM   #23
Refugee
 
Klaus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: on a one of these small green spots at that blue planet at the end of the milky way
Posts: 2,432
Local Time: 10:22 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
A "Robin Hood" move by U2 would simply mean that ticket brokers that resell the tickets would be making the millions of dollars in profit.
Wrong - there are Bands who care about ticket pricing and they make conctracts that the ticket price max. is 20$ for example.
(Afik Cure did that in the times they were verry popular in Europe).
U2 did that too (special prices (50% off) for fans from the former "east block" in Vienna)
so they showed they can if they want to.
Klaus
__________________
Klaus is offline  
Old 11-13-2002, 03:46 PM   #24
The Fly
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 36
Local Time: 09:22 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl
Whatever. You have your high horse, he has his. To say 'no popular musician should be allowed to bite the hand that feeds them" is like saying they don't have the right to criticize, which everyone certainly does. I certainly exercise the right to constructively criticize the hand that feeds me if I think it can be better. Maybe you don't think his criticisms are constructive and you certainly have a right to that opinion. Also, his concerts are probably not considered crappy by the fans that are happy to pay the $65. Most of my friends are disgusted that U2 charges $130 but I can afford it and it's worth it to me and I tell them to mind their own business. What's fair in ticket prices is generally pretty subjective.
First, I never said anything about preventing him from criticizing the hand that feeds him. If you had read more carefully, I said he shouldn't be able to bite the hand that feeds him AND also get praised for it. Why praise someone who is so well off and has nothing to lose? It's not like he's putting a lot on the line.

I certainly don't think his criticisms are constructive. They are too broad and vague. People are greedy, TV is bad, radio has changed, morals are gone. No DUH! He's not much different from any old geezer at a retirement home complaining about the same things (movie tickets were a dime in my day, children respected their parents, kissing and cussing on TV weren't allowed, people had respect for each other, etc etc).

I don't think you should judge concerts by what their true fans are willing to pay because some of them are willing to play $500 to see the concert while others can't afford to pay much more than $20 to see the same concert. So, you're right when you said it's subjective. If it is subjective, why is a multimillionare complaining about $130 ticket prices? Why doesn't he do what Klaus was talking about (the Cure example)? Why create ticket ranges where the richer fans who can afford $55-65 ticket prices can get better seats? He can REFUSE to tour. He can play GA only venues. Give it a shot! Do it for the reefer, Tom!
__________________
boywonder is offline  
Old 11-13-2002, 04:59 PM   #25
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 09:22 AM
Klaus,

I think that you might misunderstand what Ticket Scalpers and Brokers do when tickets are sold below market value for a concert. They buy up the tickets at the lower list price whether there is a contract or not, when the tickets go on sale to the public. They then resell their tickets at a price which meets the demand in the market.

A contract making the ticket price max 20$ has no effect on Brokers and Scalpers who buy the tickets once they go on sale. They buy hundreds or thousands of tickets for a single show at that 20$ price and resell them for what ever market demand really is for that show, whether it be 30$ or 100$. The Scalpers and the Brokers make far more money per ticket than the artist does. But if the artist were to charge what their market value was, scalpers and brokers would have a much more difficult time reselling the tickets and making a profit, especially if the concert does not completely sellout.

Melon,

If Scalpers and Brokers often were able to overcharge certain tickets so as to make a profit regardless whether they sold most of their tickets and could throw the unsold tickets away, there would be a lot of empty seats at these Sold Out concerts. That does not usually happen, certainly not at any of the sold out performances I have been to since 1991.

It is a market and the competion is between the artist who are on tour and also music entertainment vs other types of entertainment. Ticketbastards service charge on the U2 shows I saw last year was only 5 dollars. Thats only 5% of the cost of the total price, list price plus service charge which equaled 90$ for that ticket. Other shows that I went to for U2, I ordered over the internet and the service charge was often double there, but still a fraction of the total. It would be nice if there were other ticket agencies, but you'd only be saving 2 or 3 dollars a ticket at most if there was. I don't like the fact that Ticketmaster has a virtual monopoly on the sell of tickets, but competition here would only provide a drop of a dollar or two in the service charge.

Ticket resellers are always going to be more expensive if the show is a sellout and demand to see the show is high. But lets go back to the POPMART tour in 1997. Stadiums are huge places with capicities that are three to four times the size of the average arena. The POPMART shows I went to in Philadelphia and New York did not sellout completely until the band was about to hit the stage. In this market with thousands of tickets still on sell only weeks or days before the show begins, I saw ticket scalpers and brokers attempting to resell their purchased $52.50 U2 tickets for as little as $20. U2s decision to play massive stadiums that are difficult for anyone to sellout meant a massive increase in the supply of tickets available. More importantly, U2 may have charged slightly more than what market demand was for U2 shows in stadiums in 1997 for POPMART contributing to lower attendance at shows than there was for ZOO TV.(more importantly the POP album was a lot less popular).

All of this meant that POPMART was not a good tour for scalpers and resellers for two reasons. First the initial price of the ticket was high relative to available market supply and demand. Second there was no point to go to scalpers and resellers for most Stadiums shows because most of the shows did not completely sellout and those that did, did so only the day of the show. This meant Scalpers and Brokers usually lost money and ended up selling most of their tickets at prices below market value in order to get rid of them. Not that U2 did not make truck load of money on this tour, it is still the 3rd highest grossing tour in history with $172 million dollars made from 93 shows around the world with 4 million people in attendance.

I see nothing wrong with Brokers and Scalpers. It was thanks to a Broker that I was finally able to secure a GA ticket for U2 last year and thereby get inside the Heart. I had attempted at 4 shows before that to get a GA ticket but had not succeeded.

When it comes to the price of a ticket, it all about demand, whether its the initial list price set by the artist, you or I, or someone else is reselling it. If the artist charges what he is worth and the show is not completely sold out, anyone attempting to resell the ticket and make a profit is going to have a very tough time. Even if a show does sellout, if an artist plays multiple shows there, that will cut down on the business scalpers and brokers can do. But if the artist does not price his tickets based on demand or does not play enough shows to meet demand, business will be good for scalpers and brokers as they correctly meet the market demand for these tickets
__________________
STING2 is offline  
Old 11-13-2002, 05:02 PM   #26
Blue Crack Addict
 
joyfulgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 16,615
Local Time: 02:22 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by boywonder


First, I never said anything about preventing him from criticizing the hand that feeds him. If you had read more carefully, I said he shouldn't be able to bite the hand that feeds him AND also get praised for it. Why praise someone who is so well off and has nothing to lose? It's not like he's putting a lot on the line. [/i]
Sorry, my mistake. Yet I still don't really see that there's much difference between criticizing (which I equate with your 'biting') the hand that feeds, and doing so along with getting praised for it.

I see your points, but I disagree. And the pot thread has taken up all of my FYM energy for the day, you'll be happy to know , and I realize I just don't care that much about this topic to argue it any further. Tom Petty is kind of a cranky old man, always has been, always will be, I'll agree with you there, but I continue to respect him for speaking his mind.
__________________
joyfulgirl is offline  
Old 11-13-2002, 06:29 PM   #27
The Fly
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 36
Local Time: 09:22 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl


Sorry, my mistake. Yet I still don't really see that there's much difference between criticizing (which I equate with your 'biting') the hand that feeds, and doing so along with getting praised for it.

I see your points, but I disagree. And the pot thread has taken up all of my FYM energy for the day, you'll be happy to know , and I realize I just don't care that much about this topic to argue it any further. Tom Petty is kind of a cranky old man, always has been, always will be, I'll agree with you there, but I continue to respect him for speaking his mind.
Well, I'm just saying that criticism should be both constructive and meaningful. First, I don't think his criticism is constructive for the reasons I stated earlier. I think the meaning is lost when the critic is so intimately tied into what he criticizes. Also, I would praise criticism if the critic had something to lose (MLK, Gandhi) rather than someone who doesn't have anything to lose. For him, I'm sure it's just mental masturbation more than a "crusade". I'm sure it falls flat with a lot of people like if George Bush had criticized fuel efficiency in SUVs. Peace out.

BTW, I've got several Tom Petty albums and I enjoy his music.
__________________
boywonder is offline  
Old 11-13-2002, 07:14 PM   #28
Refugee
 
Klaus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: on a one of these small green spots at that blue planet at the end of the milky way
Posts: 2,432
Local Time: 10:22 AM
Sting2:
There are ways to make it hard (impossible) for Scalpers/Brokers :

1. Don't sell 100+ Tickets to one person
2. Don't sell Tickets to companies who abused it before
3. make it illegal to resale tickets for a higher price then the "list price" (by purchasing this you agree...)
4. Send security ppl out to find scalpers and if you see people doing that call the police / if you find ticket agencies who sell overpriced call the police...
6. Make sure that there are lots of tickets left for sale at the night of the show (heck there seems to be no english word for "Abendkasse")

You can't make it 100$ sure - but you can create as much pain as possible for those guys.

Klaus
__________________
Klaus is offline  
Old 11-13-2002, 09:28 PM   #29
Paper Gods
Forum Administrator
 
KhanadaRhodes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: a vampire in the limousine
Posts: 60,609
Local Time: 03:22 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus
(heck there seems to be no english word for "Abendkasse")
evening cash register? i just literally translated it, so i dunno.

it's funny. at first, when i read tom petty's rant, i was thinking, "yeah! more power to him for speaking his mind!" but now after reading some of the posts that have criticized what he said, i agree. if only he had made his rant more constructive, like saying this sucks in the music industry, this should be done instead, it would've been great. but instead he just comes off like some bitter old grump.
__________________
KhanadaRhodes is offline  
Old 11-14-2002, 02:24 AM   #30
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
cell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Disneyland
Posts: 5,901
Local Time: 02:22 AM
please be nice to me its just my humble opinion

i dont know much about what's fair in ticket pricing in the concert business, but its not like any really popular band will let their fans see a free concert anytime soon. its how musicians make a living after all. u2 doesnt let fans see a free concert. they don't give away their cd's for free. same thing for tom petty. its how they make a living. some overcharge on their ticket prices, some don't. some say they don't have control over the ticket prices. i think its true, because you have to remember all those people who help set up the stage, the production, the printing of the tickets, the advertising, all that shit...they have to get paid too don't they? i hope i'm making sense? thats just my .02
__________________

__________________
cell is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com