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Old 05-19-2006, 08:18 PM   #16
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i love it when you guys talk about marx and communism.

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Old 05-20-2006, 05:30 AM   #17
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Originally posted by Se7en
i love it when you guys talk about marx and communism.
ALL discussion on this forum get hijacked whenever the words "Marx", "communism" or "capitalism" are uttered.

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Old 05-20-2006, 11:42 AM   #18
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Originally posted by Halifax
ALL discussion on this forum get hijacked whenever the words "Marx", "communism" or "capitalism" are uttered.
The discussion became relevant when someone asked why this guy was elected in the first place. The thing is that most people don't realize that a government typically works in two layers: an inflexible layer (capitalism, communism, theocracy, etc.) topped off with the veneer that we call "democracy."

And it is under that principle as to why Ahmadinejad was elected in the first place. Even if the Iranian people had elected his opponent, it is likely that we'd be in exactly the same place right now--with the exception that Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani would likely have kept his mouth shut more and Iran's nuclear program would be even more covert. So, perhaps, be glad that they elected the bumbling idiot instead of the suave career politician in this instance.

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Old 05-20-2006, 12:27 PM   #19
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Originally posted by melon
What we tend to forget is that democracy usually works within a rather rigid ideological framework. That is, you're never going to get an electable candidate that will overthrow capitalism in the U.S. Likewise, in Iran, the chances of getting an electable candidate who can overthrow Iranian theocracy is rather remote.

This is probably why Marxism comments on how "choice" is generally an illusion, as all the available options in theory are conveniently quite the same in practice.

This is true. They are preventing moderates from running in Iran. Iran actually has a good-sized liberal opposition, but the mullahs won't let them run for public office. The moderates are there, but they can't get elected if they can't run.
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Old 05-20-2006, 03:59 PM   #20
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
The Mullahs barred candidates that were not to their liking from running, the "moderate" and "conservative" choice was two sides of the same coin.

It is quite inconsequential though, since democracy is not the problem - Islam is, the apocalyptic and genocidal worldview of the Shiite sect of the 12 Imam that Ahmadinejad encapsulates.


but i wonder if democracy can't help but legitimize apocalyptic and genocidal worldviews if they are agreed upon by the population.

a democracy does not a tolerant society make.
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Old 05-20-2006, 07:21 PM   #21
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True, liberal values are what ensures a generally tolerant society, hence the Liberal Democracy, rule of the people while protecting individual rights.

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