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Old 12-22-2004, 09:24 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic

but If the majority of our soldiers don't feel right about what they're doing in Iraq, than we have a problem with our military, not our mission.
I think that's total BS. Yes a soldier has a mission and they know what they've signed up for, but I don't believe in this mentality that we need to develop a bunch of robots that do not question anything.
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Old 12-22-2004, 09:37 PM   #62
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I think that's total BS. Yes a soldier has a mission and they know what they've signed up for, but I don't believe in this mentality that we need to develop a bunch of robots that do not question anything.
I think it's total BS that some people try to paint the picture that the military's attitude in general is against this war and that the soldiers are poor young men who don't really know what they're doing or why they're doing it, or are being forced into something they don't agree with.
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Old 12-22-2004, 09:46 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic


I think it's total BS that some people try to paint the picture that the military's attitude in general is against this war and that the soldiers are poor young men who don't really know what they're doing or why they're doing it, or are being forced into something they don't agree with.
Yes both sides of the story need to be reported. I know soldiers over there right now on both sides of the coin. I agree some of the "good" stories aren't being told, but that's true of everything not just this war.

But I do not agree that anything would be wrong with our military if a majority didn't agree with the mission.
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Old 12-22-2004, 09:55 PM   #64
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

But I do not agree that anything would be wrong with our military if a majority didn't agree with the mission.
What I meant was, if you don't believe in war, why enlist? I seriously considered it (the reserves at least) b/c I needed all the help I could get paying for college, but after Bush was elected and 9/11 and the events following....I wasn't sure how I felt about the situation and how I anticipated it being handled, so I decided that if I couldn't have 100% faith in the leaders of the country, it just wouldn't be right to sign up and be willing to fight for something I didn't believe in. I'm not saying everyone should feel the same or decide the same way, but that's honestly how I felt.
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Old 12-22-2004, 10:06 PM   #65
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What I meant was, if you don't believe in war, why enlist?
Well many enlisted before this war. Many believe in such wars such as Afganistan but not Iraq. There are soldiers that don't believe in this mission, period(I'm not going to make a statment as to how many either way), this doesn't make them less of soldiers.
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Old 12-23-2004, 12:55 PM   #66
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Old 12-23-2004, 01:30 PM   #67
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Old 12-23-2004, 06:48 PM   #68
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Slop is deservedly thrown on Bush supporters. In fact, I would like to throw some on his supporters (and him) right now--three cheers for Bush, as I read today that the administration is cutting $300 million dollars worth of grants to college students so he can pay to keep "democracy on the march." God bless America. I mean seriously--no child left behind? They're all going to be left behind if they can't pay for their fucking education.

This of course doesn't mean he shouldn't be person of the year. He's my person of the year--he's fucked up more shit for more people than anyone else this year. Hell (as we all well know) Hitler was man of the year.

And as for your 2nd comment, as Stephen Colbert (of the Daily Show) put it when I interviewed him, "The Democrats were really nice people. The Republicans feasted upon babies in a pit of fire."




Quote:
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Do you have any idea the amount of "slop" that gets thrown on the Bush-supporters on this site?

So your saying that the non-Bush-supporters are nice and quiet/respectful? Give me a break. Get real.

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Old 12-24-2004, 01:50 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Well many enlisted before this war. Many believe in such wars such as Afganistan but not Iraq. There are soldiers that don't believe in this mission, period(I'm not going to make a statment as to how many either way), this doesn't make them less of soldiers.
Mmhm. People will fight in a war that they feel has valid reasoning behind it. If they don't feel there's valid reasoning, they'll have questions and reservations about the whole thing.

Not to mention, I heard a story a while back about some soldiers whose duty was almost up, and yet were basically being threatened to stay on longer than they'd intended, otherwise they wouldn't get the things that military people get or something like that. So some of these people may not have a choice in where they fight and everything.

On a slightly related note...so I got the most recent issue of People magazine today, and I noticed the list of all the soldiers who've died in Iraq thus far...way, way too many names on that list. This is not the war we need to be fighting, we need to get the soldiers out of there now, before that list gets any longer.

Angela
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Old 12-24-2004, 06:20 AM   #70
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There's been at least one poll that showed that the public's support for the Iraq mission is slipping. There's more questioning of the whole thing going on. I think a section of the public that supported the original intent has soured over the government's, and particularly Rumsfeld's, mishandling of the whole situation. Yes, Bush had enough votes to be re-elected but that doesn't exactly imply lack of opposition to certain things he's doing.
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Old 12-24-2004, 09:02 AM   #71
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Originally posted by tennispunk
Slop is deservedly thrown on Bush supporters. In fact, I would like to throw some on his supporters (and him) right now--three cheers for Bush, as I read today that the administration is cutting $300 million dollars worth of grants to college students so he can pay to keep "democracy on the march." God bless America. I mean seriously--no child left behind? They're all going to be left behind if they can't pay for their fucking education.

Heh. This doesn't bother me near as much as some things. I mean, school for me has never cost less than $5000/yr (I started when I was four) and now I'm shelling out $26,000/year. Last year, my gov't grant was cancelled DURING the school year so within a week I had to come up with the money. Public ed is so frickin cheap already....I can't stomach complaints about the costs. And yes, I know I CHOSE to attend the private school, but the public schools around here are total shit. Really, they're grading scale is absurd, kids graduate from elementary school that can hardly read or do basic algebra, only half of the seniors in high school graduate even though they have standards lower than I ever thought possible, even the eople I knew who went to the "special" public HS for smart kids couldn't write a decent structured essay....If I were you, I'd get pissed about the state of the schools in general, not the grants. Most of the public school kids around here don't even go to college anyway. It's just appalling.
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Old 12-24-2004, 01:07 PM   #72
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Originally posted by verte76
There's been at least one poll that showed that the public's support for the Iraq mission is slipping. There's more questioning of the whole thing going on. I think a section of the public that supported the original intent has soured over the government's, and particularly Rumsfeld's, mishandling of the whole situation. Yes, Bush had enough votes to be re-elected but that doesn't exactly imply lack of opposition to certain things he's doing.
Looking at the election though, Bush is the first President since his father 16 years ago to win a majority of the vote. Iraq was one of the big issues in the election and the strong vote for Bush in the election was a reflection of people's continued support for his policies there.
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Old 12-24-2004, 01:11 PM   #73
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Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic


Heh. This doesn't bother me near as much as some things. I mean, school for me has never cost less than $5000/yr (I started when I was four) and now I'm shelling out $26,000/year. Last year, my gov't grant was cancelled DURING the school year so within a week I had to come up with the money. Public ed is so frickin cheap already....I can't stomach complaints about the costs. And yes, I know I CHOSE to attend the private school, but the public schools around here are total shit. Really, they're grading scale is absurd, kids graduate from elementary school that can hardly read or do basic algebra, only half of the seniors in high school graduate even though they have standards lower than I ever thought possible, even the eople I knew who went to the "special" public HS for smart kids couldn't write a decent structured essay....If I were you, I'd get pissed about the state of the schools in general, not the grants. Most of the public school kids around here don't even go to college anyway. It's just appalling.
Most people in the country do not get 4 year college degree's although the percentage that do has never been higher. 29% of Females and 27% of Males, in the 25 to 45 age group, have a 4 year degree, in the USA.
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Old 12-24-2004, 02:36 PM   #74
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On one hand this sickens me, but on the other hand, it shouldn't, because I give Time's person of the year about as much credence as I give People Magazine's 50 Most Beautiful People of The Year, which btw, should be renamed the more accurate 50 Most Photographed People of The Year.

This whole administrations is horrific. Bush is all the bad things anyone's ever said about him. Rumsfeld is almost as bad. Ashcroft is just really freaky and scary and I'm thankful he's leaving. Condoleza Rice even sounds(in her vocal inflections) like she's been brainwashed to believe whatever Bush and co. tell her. Etc etc etc.

And for the guy who called us democrats 'bleeding heart demo-communists'(something like that)...well, I can't say what I want to say here. It would only cause the mods a headache and it wouldn't change anyone's point of view, so it's pretty much pointless.
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Old 12-24-2004, 04:14 PM   #75
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Looking at the election though, Bush is the first President since his father 16 years ago to win a majority of the vote. Iraq was one of the big issues in the election and the strong vote for Bush in the election was a reflection of people's continued support for his policies there.
It was also the closest re-election for an incumbent since 1916. Yes, he got a majority of the vote but I would still say that 51% of the vote leaves alot of room for dissent and disagreement with the government, no matter what issue you're talking about, and yes, Iraq was probably the biggest issue in the election.
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