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Old 04-09-2003, 11:17 AM   #16
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yeah I want journalists to die...

you accused the US of targeting journalists

you're such an ass
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Old 04-09-2003, 11:41 AM   #17
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Originally posted by The Wanderer
you're such an ass
Very nice debating tactic.
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Old 04-09-2003, 11:45 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
spin spin spin...

no one thinks the journalists got what they deserved... there are risks one takes when you enter a war zone. it's a tragic event, and the press... both al jazeera who died at the hands of american rounds and american and british journalists who died by shots fired from iraqis... did not deserve to die, but they knew the risk when they entered a war zone. that's it.
Ok, I agree. They knew the risks when entering the war zone.

Yes, sure. Everyone knows. And so?

I think that was an argument, not just a mere statement. What good is a statement like that? Its totally logical that everyone who is in Iraq at the moment is at high risk.
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Old 04-09-2003, 11:47 AM   #19
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it was a defense at your thought that any of us were saying that the journalists deserved to die...
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Old 04-09-2003, 11:53 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Wanderer
yeah I want journalists to die...

you accused the US of targeting journalists

you're such an ass
What do you mean then, "they certainly didnīt have to be there"? You mean it like a statement, am I interpreting this right? You mean, if they had chosen not to be journalists, but bakermen, they wouldnīt be there. Or, if they had chosen to be journalists that left Iraq, they wouldnīt have been shot. So whats the job of a journalist then?

I didnīt accuse the US of targeting journalists, man, and i didnīt accuse you of wanting journalists to die. Get over it. I said that there is certain pattern that remembers me of the methods of the Cosa Nostra. We will never know if someone gave the order to fire into the building intentionally.

Do you think it was an accident?

And another accident?

And another accident?

Ok, your choice. Then I must say, the military is really not acting precise enough. It is a little much, just a little too much. We are talking about lives here. Not about patriotism and accusing. Life weighs heavier.
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Old 04-09-2003, 12:50 PM   #21
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2 other interesting facts:

al Jazera HQ was also bombed in Afghanistan war. (Seems they have no luck with US military) so it's easy for people who don't trust the US (most people in the arabic world) to see a pattern

David Chater (britisch Sky Channel,) saw this tragidy with his own eyes and said "absurd". "That tank shell, if it was indeed an American tank shell, was aimed directly at this hotel ... This wasn't an accident. It seems to be a very accurate shot." and.. "What are we supposed to do? How are we supposed to carry on if American shells are targeting Western journalists?"

my opinion: if it was an acident US government should appologize for that and not talk aobut self-defense

The way they handle this situation shows how they talk about "colateral damage" in other places too. The only difference is that Journalists can inform the world how it really was, who would believe a iraqi family who complains that they were shot for no reason?

Here you can read the view of CPJ

http://www.cpj.org/news/2003/Iraq08apr03na.html

Tho problem of a President who thinks his mission is authorized by god might be that he has serious problems to simply say "What we did was wrong"

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Old 04-09-2003, 01:21 PM   #22
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Right, if anyone was shot for no reason, the thing to do is to acknowledge that there was a screw-up and apologize, not rationalize.
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Old 04-09-2003, 01:29 PM   #23
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The BBC is onw reporting that the blast that killed the journalists may have been the result of Iraqi soldiers.

From The Guardian.
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Old 04-09-2003, 01:30 PM   #24
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look, I have a friend who is embedded with the 82nd Airborne and he is taking a risk being there. We know that reporters have died on both sides of the war. We know that reporters were kidnapped by Iraq. We also see reporters reporting from Qatar or Kuwait. You don't HAVE to be in Iraq. That's why people left.

Do they deserve to die? No. But neither do civilians. Are you willing to go on record and say that journalists -- and ONLY journalists -- were in that building? I've been reading coverage from the New Yorker of a journalist staying at that hotel talking about all the Iraqi government officials that were also staying there. Unless you were there and can say that you did not see any shots fired from that building with your own eyes, you need to back off. I wouldn't be surprised if there were shots fired from that hotel. And I wouldn't be surprised if that tank thought it was aiming at Iraqi resistors.

It’s a sad day when journalists die but they were there to report the TRUTH. Don't manipulate the truth to make it YOUR truth to support your argument. We were not there, we don't know exactly what happened there. Stop acting like we do.
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Old 04-09-2003, 02:12 PM   #25
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Ok, agreed, we donīt know about the truth because we werenīt there.
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Old 04-09-2003, 03:17 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by sharky
look, I have a friend who is embedded with the 82nd Airborne and he is taking a risk being there. We know that reporters have died on both sides of the war. We know that reporters were kidnapped by Iraq. We also see reporters reporting from Qatar or Kuwait. You don't HAVE to be in Iraq. That's why people left.


True, but I'm personally very grateful that some reporters have stayed in Iraq during the course of the war in order to let those people not in Iraq know something of what's been happening there.

Quote:
Unless you were there and can say that you did not see any shots fired from that building with your own eyes, you need to back off. I wouldn't be surprised if there were shots fired from that hotel. And I wouldn't be surprised if that tank thought it was aiming at Iraqi resistors.


Equally, if you weren't there then you can't say there there were shots fired. Personally I've heard Rageh Omar (BBC correspondent) and David Chater (Sky News correspondent) go on record as saying they do not believe there were any shots fired from that hotel. They were both giving eye-witness accounts of the events.

Quote:
It’s a sad day when journalists die but they were there to report the TRUTH. Don't manipulate the truth to make it YOUR truth to support your argument. We were not there, we don't know exactly what happened there. Stop acting like we do.
True, none of us can know for definite what's happened in Iraq because we weren't eye-witnesses to it. However, we're all in the same position here: none of us are in Iraq and so all of our comments are based on information from people who are in Iraq. If you are going to discredit other people's opinions because they weren't present at the events they're talking about, then surely that logic discredits your own opinions also as you're not in Iraq either. I don't mean this post to sound like it's a direct criticism of you, I just think it's wrong to suggest that because we're not in Iraq, we can't really comment on events there.
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Old 04-09-2003, 04:11 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
The BBC is onw reporting that the blast that killed the journalists may have been the result of Iraqi soldiers.

From The Guardian.
The Guardian would be one of the first papers to push that Americans did it. Interesting.

Peace
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Old 04-09-2003, 04:20 PM   #28
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You don't like the Guardian?
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Old 04-09-2003, 05:07 PM   #29
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But I like the Guardian!
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Old 04-09-2003, 05:15 PM   #30
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YaY! Guardian readers of the world unite!
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