Thoughts on Paul McCartney's criticism of the Atlantic Canadian seal hunt?

[GibsonGirl]

Paul McCartney and his wife appeared on Larry King last night to present their rather misconstrued views of the seal hunt. Newfoundland & Labrador's premier, Danny Williams, appeared on the final half of the show to give the other side of the story. Here's the run-down, if you missed it.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/03/03/williams060303.html

Newfoundland and Labrador Premier Danny Williams took on ex-Beatle Paul McCartney and his wife during a heated debate Friday night over the Canadian seal hunt, accusing the high-profile couple of being misinformed and used by some animal rights groups.

"My concern here is that the McCartneys are not completely informed," Williams said during the debate aired on CNN's Larry King Live.

McCartney, who along with his wife Heather Mills McCartney visited seal pups in the Gulf of St. Lawrence Thursday, has joined a tradition of international celebrities seeking to bring pressure on the Canadian and Atlantic provincial governments to stop the centuries-old hunt.

They have called the hunt inhumane and a stain on Canada's reputation.

Williams, who appeared on the last half of the broadcast, immediately challenged Mills McCartney's assertion that most seals are clubbed. In fact, Williams said, 90 per cent are killed by bullet.

He said the hunt is carried out humanely, and that it is supported by scientists, veterinarians and organizations like the UN and the World Wildlife Fund.

Williams argued that the seal population has tripled from two million to 5.8 million. He said if that is allowed to continue the "inhumane consequence of that is that these seals will starve."

Mills McCartney interjected to say that it's completely normal for there to be millions of seals.

McCartney said that in the 1950s and 60s, there was an over culling of the seal population where they dropped to a dangerously low level. Over the last three years, he said, that level of killing is happening again.

"Even though at this moment in time there may be enough seals, the population could drop in the same way as it did in the 50s and 60s," McCartney said.

Williams said only three per cent of the seals have been taken.

The most heated exchanges occurred between Mills and Williams.

When King asked Mills McCartney to respond on the number of seals actually killed by bullets, she replied : "It's just not true. It's complete and absolute rubbish."

Williams repeated that Mills McCartney was incorrect. "I have to set the record straight. I live here and I actually know."

Video of seals being clubbed to death during past hunts was shown several times during the show.

Williams rejected McCartney's premise that no reasonable person who saw footage of the hunt would say it's humane.

Williams said if you go into any slaughterhouse and put white sheets on the floor, "then you're going to see blood. And that's not nice and that's not pleasant."

Williams went on to say that the couple is being used by organizations like the IFAW, Greenpeace and PETA who raise hundreds of millions of dollars. He added that the FBI has terrorist files on these groups.

But Mills McCartney slammed Williams for going off on a tangent.

"Why are you not sticking to the seal hunt? The fact that it's used for fashion, the fact that they are inhumanely killed."

"Why don't you stick to the subject. You're such a politician. You keep going off on irrelevant things."

"This is about propaganda," Williams responded. "This is about using superstars like your husband."

After the debate, Williams said he felt he made inroads.

"They seemed to get defensive at times which I think was good from our perspective because it showed that we were making our points."

Thoughts? I personally felt that the McCartneys came across as idiots. Particularly McCartney's wife. I've seen the poverty in Newfoundland, and trust me, it's not a pretty sight. If the seal hunt was completely put to an end, there would be many Atlantic Canadians who simply would not be able to survive without heavy government assistance. The hunt has supported the backbone of Newfoundland's economy for centuries. I'd like to see Paul McCartney look a poor Newfoundland sealer in the eyes and tell him that he wants to deprive him of his main source of income because "it's cruel."

And whether or not sealing is "cruel" is another issue entirely. McCartney and his wife bleated on about the poor baby seals that get clubbed to death. For one thing, clubbing is NOT the principle means of slaughter. It happens, but not to the extent that the McCartneys were suggesting. And while the seals that get killed are young, they are NOT the fluffy wide-eyed white coats that most people think they are. Slaughter of white coats has been illegal since 1987. Yet, these animal rights campaigns and activists still use the image to this day. It pulls on the heartstrings, and anything that pulls on the heartstrings pulls on the wallet. It's as simple as that.

Another issue is that of fur. The McCartneys argued that the seals only get killed for their fur. McCartney's wife claimed that one can't compare the slaughter of seals to the slaughter of chicken and cows for food because, apparently, people are only interested in the coats. I'd like to take her by the hand and show her the shops here in Newfoundland that specialise in, (can you believe it, Heather!) seal meat. There are people all over Atlantic Canada who still consume seal. Seal meat is also exported to other countries, so that argument falls down completely. Not to mention that oil created from seal blubber is a significant export. Looks like the poor little seals aren't just killed for their coats, after all.

If you want to know the truth about the seal hunt, have a look here:

http://www.releases.gov.nl.ca/releases/1998/fishaq/sealing.htm

I think Paul McCartney should stick to making music, rather than making a fool of himself on national television. I especially enjoyed it when he claimed he was currently "in Newfoundland" and the scroll at the bottom of the screen read that was actually in Prince Edward Island.

 

[AliEnvy]

I didn't watch Larry King so I'm not sure if the fisheries were brought up but the media articles haven't even touched on the fact that baby seals grow up and eat all the fish which is the area's primary industry and source of income.

 

[trevster2k]

I watched it and you are correct Gibby, McCartney looked foolish assuming you know the facts, and when he started talking about the 50's and 60's, I was like ok now you are totally lost. It sounded like they got all their info from a ant-sealing brochure from the early '80s.

And Larry was sad to watch, didn't even make an effort to pronounce the name of the province correctly. Heather McCartney is truly annoying, she would ask Williams a question but not stop talking long enough to let him answer.

I respect celebrities such as Bono or Angelina Jolie who are actively involved at the grass roots of activism but showing up for photo-ops is just sad.

 

[anitram]

Why did Larry keep referring to it as New Finland? Can the man read?

I didn't watch Larry King so I'm not sure if the fisheries were brought up but the media articles haven't even touched on the fact that baby seals grow up and eat all the fish which is the area's primary industry and source of income.

Yes, it was brought up repeatedly and the McCartneys claimed that it wasn't the seals that were overeating, but that the fisheries were overfishing. When the premier pointed out that Newfoundland now has the problem of the seals entering fresh water reservoirs and rivers and eating up the fish there because they've exhausted the ocean cod, the McCartneys ignored him.

The most ludicrous thing of all was that they suggested that not only would sealers not go out of business but that they could prosper by introducing eco tourism which would mainly consist of spending thousands of dollars on Goretex parkas so that you could go and walk around on ice sheets in Labrador looking at the seals. These people are completely out of touch with reality if they think this will be a commercial success on par with the seal and fishery industry of the Maritimes.

They both sounded like idiots but Heather in particular is so bloody irritating and militant that I can't stand listening to her.

 

[nbcrusader]

Fame is a currency that can be poorly spent if you are uninformed. McCartney should avoid PETA like reactions to the issues.

 

[verte76]

I don't like PETA. They sensationalize everything in the name of kindness to animals. It's ridiculous. I don't think they care about animals at all, they are just trying to get publicity for their organization, to hell with animals.

 

[djfeelgood]

I felt this comic was appropriate...

beware the moral highground.

 

[Harry Vest]

If he really cared Paul McCartney would "bribe" the good citizens of Newfoundland to stop the hunt. He could pay all those who would normally hunt and it would be like a grain of sand on a beach. McCartney's an ass. When he played a concert in Winnipeg the locals that were employed for the setup/teardown were NOT ALLOWED to consume any kind of meat product or they would be fired. He's a politically correct facist. Because of this I never went to the show, however I did order a small hamburger from a Mcdonald's across the street from the stadium and ate it while listening to "Yesterday" from the parking lot - just to spite the fucker. It felt good.

 

[GibsonGirl]

Why did Larry keep referring to it as New Finland? Can the man read?



Yes, it was brought up repeatedly and the McCartneys claimed that it wasn't the seals that were overeating, but that the fisheries were overfishing. When the premier pointed out that Newfoundland now has the problem of the seals entering fresh water reservoirs and rivers and eating up the fish there because they've exhausted the ocean cod, the McCartneys ignored him.

The most ludicrous thing of all was that they suggested that not only would sealers not go out of business but that they could prosper by introducing eco tourism which would mainly consist of spending thousands of dollars on Goretex parkas so that you could go and walk around on ice sheets in Labrador looking at the seals. These people are completely out of touch with reality if they think this will be a commercial success on par with the seal and fishery industry of the Maritimes.

They both sounded like idiots but Heather in particular is so bloody irritating and militant that I can't stand listening to her.

At least Larry wasn't saying "New-found-lund."

That whole eco-tourism thing was just insane. There is absolutely no demand for it here whatsoever. How many visitors to this province would seriously consider wasting money on gear they'd likely use once, just to see a few seals lazing about? And how could those two even think that it could ever match the same kind of revenue that the seal hunt creates for Atlantic Canada? Completely out of touch.

Heather McCartney made me feel like overturning the television set. She was so disrespectful towards Premier Williams. I don't like the guy myself, but he's a Premier. You don't constantly interrupt the man and call his facts "rubbish." Even Larry King was disrespectful to him, calling him by his first name and telling him to wait for Heather to speak, then not even batting an eyelid when she interrupted him. All of them were so unbelievably rude.

It's nice to see that reactions to this interview have been in favour of Danny Williams, so far. I've only seen one person supporting the McCartneys in a blog, and she was a member of PETA.

 

[financeguy]

"People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices. It is impossible indeed to prevent such meetings, by any law which either could be executed, or would be consistent with liberty and justice. But though the law cannot hinder people of the same trade from sometimes assembling together, it ought to do nothing to facilitate such assemblies; much less to render them necessary. "

I.x.c.27 (Part II) from Adam Smith's 'the Weath of Nations' (1776)

 

[AliEnvy]

"People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices. It is impossible indeed to prevent such meetings, by any law which either could be executed, or would be consistent with liberty and justice. But though the law cannot hinder people of the same trade from sometimes assembling together, it ought to do nothing to facilitate such assemblies; much less to render them necessary. "

I.x.c.27 (Part II) from Adam Smith's 'the Weath of Nations' (1776)

Declare war on the cod cartel!!!

 

[the iron horse]

"Approximately 850 million people worldwide are malnourished. Children are the most visible victims of malnutrition. Malnutrition plays a role in at least half of the 10.9 million child deaths each year--five million deaths. These young children are prematurely— and needlessly— lost."

~From World Hunger Facts 2006


Since some super wealthy stars seem to be interested in other causes, lets hope some of us will take on this one.

 

[U2DMfan]

It makes me even more proud of what Bono is doing.

If you are like me, old enough to have grown up in the era of the activists, Bono is the only one getting anything done.

And he's the only one respected by the left and by the White House, and by not being compromised, just being real and informed.

I did see Macca and Heather of Larry KIng and I thought it was typical.

Bono has never been typical in this sense......

Maybe singing Miracle Drug, yes, but not in this case.

 

[Rono]

Killing humanly It shows how low we get,....

 

[Zoomerang96]

mccartney and his wife are tools, and you don't have to look much further than this episode to realize that.

 

[AliEnvy]

I think McCartney's ego as THE living music legend has taken quite a beating from you-know-who and this is just another rather pathetic (in a juvenile bully sort of way) attempt to remind people of his greatness.

 

[verte76]

If there's anyone who should stick to music, it's McCartney.

 

[anitram]

If there's anyone who should stick to music, it's McCartney.

Have you heard some of his recent output? Like that heinous Freedom song he sang at the Superbowl a couple of years ago?

I'm not sure what he should stick to, but music may not be it either at this point in time.

McCartney has been an irritating, bitter, petty old fool for a long time who has carried a chip on his shoulder most of his life. I don't know if it's because somewhere deep inside he feels that without John he'd still be bagging groceries in Liverpool or what, but I wish to God he'd go away and STFU.

 

[sniggirb]

Paul didn't accept the invitation to have Q104 (Halifax radio station)for a day so I don't like him.

I loved it on the news somebody said about him being here that everyone should go out and burn his records. Made me laugh.

 

[biff]

I think McCartney's ego as THE living music legend has taken quite a beating from you-know-who and this is just another rather pathetic (in a juvenile bully sort of way) attempt to remind people of his greatness.

I think you're right there. Have you noticed the body language in recent pictures of McCartney and Bono? He looks all nice and friendly, but in most of them he's trying to physically dominate. In several he appears to almost be throttling him, with his arm around his neck. He doesn't seem like a very nice person to me.

 

[verte76]

Have you heard some of his recent output? Like that heinous Freedom song he sang at the Superbowl a couple of years ago?

I'm not sure what he should stick to, but music may not be it either at this point in time.

McCartney has been an irritating, bitter, petty old fool for a long time who has carried a chip on his shoulder most of his life. I don't know if it's because somewhere deep inside he feels that without John he'd still be bagging groceries in Liverpool or what, but I wish to God he'd go away and STFU.

Oh, that Freedom song made me want to barf. I'm not praising the guy's music, I'm commenting on the absurdity of his pontificating. At least I don't have to buy his records.

 

[angelordevil]

Great thread, GG. Are you sure you're not Canadian?

I think we’re living in an age where many of us would rather be entertained than informed. This show, and the hoopla we see every year surrounding the hunt are great examples of this.

Instead of addressing the atrocities of international overfishing, or the problem of supertankers that spill their bilge into the very waters the McCartneys were photographed on, they chose the sexy whitecoat seal as their cause. The reality is, this cause was probably chosen for them, through an animal rights group that feeds off of celebrity power to fill its coffers and justify its existence. Sealing is probably much less barbaric than the various other methods of processing animals in slaughterhouses around the world. Thus, McCartney’s comment on how the hunt is a “mark against the Canadian Character” is naive more than anything.

It’s also a bit of a modern luxury to complain about the harvesting of animals. It used to be that we just did it simply to survive. Contemplating why we do it is often a convenience of the privileged, and those who are distanced from a tangible connection to the wild. In fact, many Newfoundlanders are now completely removed from the time when we had to hunt to survive. Now, like others around the world, we can read about people who still hunt and watch them on television. I’m in that bubble of watchers, a couple of generations removed from hunting for necessity. I’m fortunate to have the memories of my grandmother to give me perspective on my heritage. She tells me how her father dreaded heading out to the seal hunt every year—but he did it to put food on the table. Along with worrying about his own safety on the shifting floor of ocean ice, he also despaired over the killing of animals…there was no joy involved.

Despite my distance from the hunt, there are still people today here who rely on it to pay the bills, as GibsonGirl says. We can criticize them, but it’s highly hypocritical when you consider where the rest of our food comes from. For example, how often do we stop to think of the hormones that are injected into beef, or the overly-cramped existence of chickens and turkeys? I’m a huge animal lover--as are many Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. We may just have more cats, dogs, and gerbils per capita than any other territory on earth. We’re also surrounded by animals when we venture into in the wild (and in this province, it’s almost all wild). Whether it’s a moose, rabbit, partridge, or a seal, there's inherent respect for all creatures—including the ones that have helped us survive.

I’ll admit that a big part of me dreams of the day when, globally, we don’t use animals at all for food. It’s an idea I like very much--but I’m also aware that it’s coming from a slightly naïve man who has never had to hunt a day in his life to survive. (I’m also very fond of roast beef sub sandwiches.)

In spite of my hypocritical animal love, attacking the seal hunt looks less like sincere conservation, and more like convenient window shopping for a cause.

 

[nbcrusader]

If there's anyone who should stick to music, it's McCartney.

He should just consider retirement.

 

[AliEnvy]

I think you're right there. Have you noticed the body language in recent pictures of McCartney and Bono? He looks all nice and friendly, but in most of them he's trying to physically dominate. In several he appears to almost be throttling him, with his arm around his neck. He doesn't seem like a very nice person to me.

lol I didn't notice pics but I did notice Bono's nasty and brilliant swipe at McCartney on 60 Minutes after having to share the opening stage at Live8.

BONO: It's only rock 'n' roll where people are burnt out at 40. I want to see what can happen with a band if they keep their integrity, keep their commitment to each other, and can we create extraordinary music. You know, what would have happened — and I am not making comparison because I don't feel worthy to touch their hem — but what would have happened if the Beatles lived and didn't, you know, disappear up their own arses, but actually stayed in contact with the world, were awake, didn't let their money buy them off, you know? I'm still hungry. I still want a lot out of music.

 

[verte76]

He should just consider retirement.

I agree.

 

[financeguy]

I don't like McCartney bashing.

 

[financeguy]

I think you're right there. Have you noticed the body language in recent pictures of McCartney and Bono? He looks all nice and friendly, but in most of them he's trying to physically dominate. In several he appears to almost be throttling him, with his arm around his neck. He doesn't seem like a very nice person to me.

You don't know what you're taking about.

Overall the ignorance and prejudice against one of the greatest musicians of our time displayed on this thread is quite disturbing particularly coming from people I considered intellgent.

 

[AliEnvy]

You're right. It would be more fun to pick on Michael Jackson for stealing McCartney's songs.

Then maybe Bono could steal them back!

Wait...

Did I just compare Michael Jackson to Charles Manson?

I'm a complete racist asshole. God help me.

 

[yolland]

As strong animal rights advocates, the McCartneys would probably be opposed to the seal hunt in any case, regardless of what information they had about it. That's their prerogative, you can certainly critique their facts if you like, but they have a right to their opinions and anyhow it's not like they're in a position to force the Canadian government to take some particular course of action. They're just spokespeople. And yes, PETA does tend to go for the emotionally symbolic issues rather than the systemic ones, which is probably why their influence has remained marginal--but then nobody really wants to listen to less exciting stuff like the mainstream animal agriculture practices angelordevil mentioned.

Admittedly Heather Mills McCartney can be a bit of a loose cannon, on the other hand she's done some effective campaigning work on behalf of amputees and anti-landmines groups. Ditto for her husband I suppose. I'm inclined to agree with financeguy--critiquing facts and overblown rhetoric is one thing, but overall this thread seems to have turned into a pointless gangbang that has little to do with the original topic. Save it for The Bang And The Clatter.

 

[financeguy]

I'm inclined to agree with financeguy--critiquing facts and overblown rhetoric is one thing, but overall this thread seems to have turned into a pointless gangbang that has little to do with the original topic. Save it for The Bang And The Clatter.