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Old 10-05-2005, 01:50 PM   #31
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Hmm.... interesting. (I want to learn Chinese someday....... my dad has Cantonese audio tapes from when he used to see his martial arts Sifu back in HK.... maybe I'll get my hands on those someday)


================

Just to have a small start.... I didn't get very far, but these are some things I've been loosly pondering


First, narccistic as I am, I'll start with some personal things in my life. For me... I can be happy as is, right now. I've no attachments to anyone, or anything, really. I have my family, and I like family values and such, I like family traditions, and family activities, etc. But... I'm pretty well distanced from my family, and it is a unique one at that.....

But... I'm getting to... we all know the phrase "seeking happines externally" outside of yourself, etc. Well, I wonder...


When I was young, and didn't believe in love, I wasn't happy (because a lot of things). But at the same time, now that I've been touched by love, I always feel like there is something that is not quite there, (since I don't have a real significant other right now). So it's a strange thing. For me, it's almost as if there are two sets of laws that govern my life. The "non-love" laws, and "love" laws. I'm pretty sure this is an "individual basis" thing, because people love in different ways, etc, but still, I figure I'll use it to start this all off. (Eventually, or should I say, I'm sure this will branch off into "what is love?" and etc)

But the minute point I'm striving to ..... point out... is that....
As much as happiness comes internally, and is a state of mind... Happiness is a state of mind, I believe.... but as much as it is such.... there seems to be some sort of link to other people, no matter what.

From writing this, I'd "feel" that this reminds me of something else, or supports it - the idea that we are all in this together, humankind as a society, etc. Can one really be happy alone?

More than just the simple "emotion" of happiness, but also, fufilment, having a purpose, etc.. My initial reaction to this would be.... that everyone has a different personality type, so it varies immensly. However....... we're all human, still.






well, I guess this is a start..... if not a shoty one..........
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Old 10-06-2005, 04:36 AM   #32
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Originally posted by yertle-the-turtle
One interesting (and possibly related) thing that I think about sometimes is thinking in a particular language. English is the first language that I learnt, and I learned Chinese later. When I speak or write Chinese, I unconsciously have the words out in English first and then translate them. It's one of those split second things.

I don't speak any language fluently, but occasionally when I am surrounded by people speaking a language I speak a little (French, Spanish), I find myself starting to think in that language--on a very primitive level.
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Old 10-06-2005, 04:47 AM   #33
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When I was young, and didn't believe in love, I wasn't happy (because a lot of things). But at the same time, now that I've been touched by love, I always feel like there is something that is not quite there, (since I don't have a real significant other right now). So it's a strange thing. For me, it's almost as if there are two sets of laws that govern my life. The "non-love" laws, and "love" laws. I'm pretty sure this is an "individual basis" thing, because people love in different ways, etc, but still, I figure I'll use it to start this all off. (Eventually, or should I say, I'm sure this will branch off into "what is love?" and etc)

.......... [/B]

Clarify the "non-love laws" and the "love laws." I find that intriguing.
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Old 10-06-2005, 04:46 PM   #34
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Originally posted by BonosSaint



I don't speak any language fluently, but occasionally when I am surrounded by people speaking a language I speak a little (French, Spanish), I find myself starting to think in that language--on a very primitive level.

Yeah, when I took Latin in highschool, I started incorperating those words into my english papers... it was kinda unusual.

But then a year or so passed, and a senior, I had no cpacity for Latin at all It's sostrange how one's memory can shift......
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Old 10-06-2005, 05:04 PM   #35
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I realize I am complex person. I think many people are complex, but..... There are...... there is a duality in my life.

If I abandoned love, and the whole idea of what it is, what I think of it, what it is to me, then I'm sure that I could still live and enjoy a "happy and fufilling" life. However.... abandoning love is something I would consider impossible, especially living in the modern world. However still..... I believe a person can abandon love inside themselves, and just not "love". But I think once you really know what it is, you don't "forget". (or at least that is how it seems)

The "love" laws.... Hmm, in reading a book about it, apparently it is more a feminine thing I have. Loving someone all day long, always thinking about them, making them a part of your awareness - I find myself being able to do that. Perhaps, for lack of better words, it is the "typical male" side of me batteling with the "feminine" love-inclinced side. In a boook I'm reading, it made an interesting distinction between men, who compartmentalize themselves when it comes to love, often being able to conciously make the decision "to love" or be in "love mode". One could also relate to, say, the "yin and yang" aspects of love.

*branching off* If one person is less inclined to love all the time, yet another is, wouldn't that difference create a balance? Or, possiblyl lead to a balance? Kind of like..... positive and negative currents..... *contained my thoghts*

ANyways........

My "non-love" universe and "love" universe are rather interesting to consider. I believe, should you go into it, that I am displaying a Gemini trait, which, apparently, is my "ascendant". But the duality between the two is interesting......

Perhaps why I can go back and forth between them, and so clearly lable them as one or the other.... is because I don't know which is the best, what is the right choice to make. I guess that is an individual basis, really, in regards to answers. But still.....

I've often wonderf if I can combine these two things, "love" and "non-love" laws, into one thing. It reminds me of quantum mechanics and general relativity. I don't know a lot about science or math, but... In knowing a tiny bit about the seeming incompatibility between those two... it reaminds me of my situation here.


**ah, I an now interupted. I don't like it when things break m y........ well, not my train of thought, but my....... um......... avalanche of thought, perhaps.

Upon my return (haha, that sounds very proper), I will continue!
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Old 10-07-2005, 05:58 AM   #36
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Need some more clarification. Are you defining love as loving or being loved or both? Are you making a distinction between love and "in love"?

I tend to compartmentalize too much, so would probably fall more into the masculine pattern. But perhaps that is more of a distinction between feelers and nonfeelers than it would be between men and women--however, I will grant you historically it has been men more so than women who have been considered the nonfeelers. Or feeling challenged--or feeling expression challenged, to be more accurate. I think that women are probably more capable than most men of flowing between the alpha (instinctive, receptive, creative state--or as my friend calls it "the inactive, active state) and beta (the logical, analytical, action state).

I still need further clarification on your "love" and "nonlove" universes. From the context of what I've read so far, they do not particularly seem to be incompatible. I'm not quite sure how the universes function in every day life.

(*branching off* If one person is less inclined to love all the time, yet another is, wouldn't that difference create a balance? Or, possiblyl lead to a balance? Kind of like..... positive and negative currents..... *contained my thoghts)

I guess it could lead to a balance. It depends on the needs and expectations of both parties. One would imply a need for some distance, the other a need for some intimacy. I don't think it would automatically lead to a balance, but a balance could be worked out.
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Old 10-07-2005, 06:17 AM   #37
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in regards to thought and language: what language do i think in? what language do people of other languages think in? our native tongue? or, do we interrupt the language of thought into our native languages?
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Old 10-07-2005, 06:59 AM   #38
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You are separating "thought" language then as different from "spoken or written" language. Three step process then.
Thought language to native language to second language.
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Old 10-08-2005, 04:00 AM   #39
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it's all very interesting...since we are on the topic of language, how do words come to represent things? do we just see a bunch of "chairs," assign the word "chair" to it, and then from then on recognize any similar object as "chair?" Or, was Socrates right? Did we have some kind of experience prior to birth in which we learned about universals?
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Old 10-08-2005, 04:08 AM   #40
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I've got no useful understanding of Socrates to refute him, so please correct me here where needed, but I dont believe any of that. On a side note, did he take into account people all speaking different languages? Chair isn't chair in Hindi, after all. But I have wondered how we assigned words and why.
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Old 10-08-2005, 04:14 AM   #41
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Not knowing Socrates' writing on that (which sounds a little like Jung's collective unconscious) and being a practical child, I think someone assigned the word chair. But if you'd explain Socrates' position....
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Old 10-09-2005, 01:26 AM   #42
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It's not that I haven't anything to say lately. Indeed... it is the opposite.......

Tomorrow, though, if I can get some things done, I'll spill my philosophical beans. But I am so glad that this thread is in existance! I check up on it often
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Old 10-09-2005, 07:34 AM   #43
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Re: Language

I'm reluctant to assign a metaphysical explanation when a practical explanation is available. (However, I am always interested in how great thinkers approached something, so still would like to hear Socrates' position) I doubt when language began. there was any universal word for chair (As Angela Harlem pointed out, there is still no universal word for chair), just a need to communicate the idea of the chair. (OK, I know there were probably no chairs at the birth of language, although I assume they sat) The need for language was fairly rudimentary in the beginning. Now we have chair, dining room chair, easy chair, rocking chair, Chippendale chair, etc. We create words all the time now--I'm amazed at how fast the words spread, even among people who don't spend much time with any media. But there is an intense desire to identify things. We seem to worry if something doesn't have a name or an immediate explanation. Take for example, UFO's. (PS, whether or not aliens are visiting us is NOT a discussion option in this thread, please) But somehow just assigning a name to these objects (and how vague a name is unidenitified flying object) made us fret less. Okay, that whirling fiery thing with 100 foot neon lit blades slicing off the tops of trees is an Unidentified Flying Object. OK, let's go in now and what's for dinner?

I like to observe in this forum how people use language. On whole, we use it effectively. Our points are communicated. We usually know where each other stands. But we use words differently so a full understanding is lost, I think, and the reason we sometimes get bogged down in rehashes of the same arguments. I think that once you get past language describing physical things and enter into conceptual language, in a lot of ways it becomes a free for all. Our definition for concepts -- love, patriotism, ethics--are personal, based on our understanding of it, our experiences, our perceptions, our analysis, the outside language stimuli that formulated our definitions. You can have two people discussing a conceptual topic, not knowing that their personal definitions of these things are so different that they are miscommunicating all over the place. To say that the definition of something is only the dictionary definition would be absolutely naive. But so often, we are assuming the other person shares our definitions.

My best friend and I have been friends forever and a ton of our conversations are conceptual. Now we know each other, know how we use language and I cannot tell you how many times we have to stop each other to know how we are defining a specific word so we know whether the conversation is on track or not

(Kind of off the point, but I got a huge kick out of the jumper--sweatshirt confusion on another thread. I had to look up jumper. Funadamentally, we were talking about the same thing and didn't know it. You're right, Angela Harlem, it was our turn to be flummoxed.)
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Old 10-09-2005, 07:00 PM   #44
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Originally posted by BonosSaint

My best friend and I have been friends forever and a ton of our conversations are conceptual. Now we know each other, know how we use language and I cannot tell you how many times we have to stop each other to know how we are defining a specific word so we know whether the conversation is on track or not
I know just what you mean about that...

Some people seem to get upset when I question the meaning of their words. But it makes such a vast difference... and then there is my friend who will start talking about a subject without intoducing it, and ... well.. I don't need to rant, heh heh heh........
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Old 10-09-2005, 07:09 PM   #45
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I'm guilty of the same nonintroduction as your friend. Just go right into a topic or switch it midstream.
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