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Old 07-08-2002, 07:48 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars

I know I change the theme now, just let me say, we canīt imagine how it is to be hungry. People in India or Africa can. I mean, shouldnīt we try to not eat anything for at least a week, and then see what we are able to discuss about with our oh-so-free-minds? We are so openminded because we can afford it.

Um. PLEASE be careful what you say.
You dont think there is hunger in North America or Europe? Come on now, you know better.
I myself have gone 3 weeks without food and 5,almost 6 days without water due to illness(i couldnt afford a DR), and I have gone days without food nearly every month over the last year and a half or more.
I havent had to go without food since early February, but this month I may have to resort to eating little or nothing once again. I am not alone. It happens more often than you'd think in this country.
I've seen death from starvation.
***********************************

Anyway, as for the crimes commited against women in other countries, there are some things that are just universally wrong. I dont care whose culture it is. When you inflict severe suffering on innocent individuals, its wrong. You cant justify it by saying "Oh, its their culture, we dont understand." There is no justifying pain and suffering.
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Old 07-08-2002, 10:18 PM   #32
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You cant justify it by saying "Oh, its their culture, we dont understand."
Damn straight.
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Old 07-09-2002, 01:24 AM   #33
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My post about African females who want to do it was not an act of condoning it.

Btw, the last "corrective surgery" done in Europe was as recent as the 1940s.

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Old 07-09-2002, 02:01 AM   #34
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i'm speechless again........
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Old 07-09-2002, 06:52 AM   #35
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Cool, oliveu2!

Yes, Miss Mac Phisto, you are right, I was generalizing. My mistake; Iīve seen a friend dying from hunger here, too.

How did you feel at this time? Were you able to think clearly?
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Old 07-10-2002, 10:13 PM   #36
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Normal

Not when I was sick. That time, all i could think about was whether or not I was gonna die, when would I start to feel better,etc.
Othertimes,yes for the most part, but i wouldnt be able to concentrate on any kind of test or anything that required real focus. My mind strayed too much.
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Old 07-10-2002, 10:27 PM   #37
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hmmm...the phrase "red hot poker" popped into my head when I decided that I agreed with you, Sula. But it's not completely the men - it's the inane and hurtful "traditions", rituals and social taboos and some people/countries inflict upon themselves.

But I do agree that it's the men who uphold these traditions and make the rules because it gives them the upper hand. I thank God I'm in the U.S. where, though we may not be "equal" in reality with men here on many accounts, at least we can live our lives without fear of possibly doing something accidentally that will cause "shame" and embarrassement for our family, and where people (even our own family members) have the right to rape us, burn us, torture us, throw acid in our faces or kill us, purely out of spite or a misguided sense of "honor." It sickens me, and my heart bleeds for women in such countries....


Quote:
Originally posted by sulawesigirl4
why oh why must women suffer for "crimes" that aren't crimes and which they didn't committ? men can be such animals. Castration wouldn't be good enough punishment.
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Old 07-11-2002, 01:11 AM   #38
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I've given the genital mutilation thing some thought, and really, do you think it is any more different than your country telling its soldiers that it is honourable to kill others for their nation? Similarly, these women are told from young that it is honourable to stitch up their vaginas.

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Old 07-11-2002, 03:57 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by famous rungi
I've given the genital mutilation thing some thought, and really, do you think it is any more different than your country telling its soldiers that it is honourable to kill others for their nation? Similarly, these women are told from young that it is honourable to stitch up their vaginas.

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Yes. Those soldiers have the choice to take the measures they feel is necessary to defend their country. They can choose NOT to. They understand the consequences of BOTH sides of the issue.

These women are not given that choice, Foray. They are not doing it in "honor" or even told it is honorable. They are told that they cannot have babies unless they are mutilated. As we all KNOW, that is a blatant lie. They say a man will not want them- they are not told a man would prefer it (thereby giving them a choice: do I want to mutilate myself for a man or shall I risk never getting a man. Even though the choice is jaded the fact is they never GET that choice.)

Many women bleed to death, even more can never again feel pleasure from sex. Do you know ANY guy who would put up with that? I don't think so.

Soliders may hurt others and risk their own lives for their beliefs. These women hurt no one but themselves and risk their own lives, for OTHER people's beliefs that are forced upon them. I don't see how the two subjects are even relatable. Have you read the links? Have you read any of the stories?

People supporting this make me really wonder how women are TRULY viewed.

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Old 07-12-2002, 02:59 AM   #40
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In times of war, men are drafted (as opposed to enlisted which involves volunteering) into the army.

I did not read the links as I have read many stories already. Furthermore, I am not supporting this, merely wondering out loud.

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Old 07-12-2002, 08:30 PM   #41
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Hey Foray,

I didn't think you were supporting it, but anytime people try to justify this it makes me a little uneasy.

Anyway I think this is comparing apples & oranges. The draft has happened twice (I believe) in its history; FGM happens to nearly (if not every) women in these cultures. They do not have the freedoms we have to get something changed if we do not like it. They don't even have the freedoms to show their face in public.

I don't have enough facts to argue/discuss the draft issue, but I do not think you can compare the two, one doesn't make the other "right" or cancel the severity of the other.

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Old 07-12-2002, 09:41 PM   #42
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The more I learn about the "dark side" of various cultures around the world, the more "culturally intolerant" I become.

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Old 07-15-2002, 12:43 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Bama
The more I learn about the "dark side" of various cultures around the world, the more "culturally intolerant" I become.

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Then you should remind yourself that there are "light sides". Iīm not talking of outweighing there, and I am not saying you should tolerate practices as stated above. But I think intolerance is not the right way, it wonīt make things any better. I know many African people who are against those practices.

But half-heartedly, I can follow what you say - itīs just that I see a complex of cultures differently. I have been accused of being intolerant towards America, being the country that was involved in over 90% of armed conflicts throughout the world in the year 2000. I think we can speak of a certain culture in policy here, too (even if Iīm far from comparing soldiers and women). But I still respect America for a lot of things, like stated in one of my earlier posts.

Consider yourself lucky that you can afford to push your "cultural intolerance", that our counties are so rich.

Ok, now itīs stupid comparison time again, gets a classic on Interferencerīs discussions (this oneīs especially 4 Bubba, my metaphoric love ).

Imagine that Africans say:

"Oh, look how degenerated the American culture is, for its way of dealing with food. Look at how animals are treated. Do they ask them a simple sorry before they kill them cruelly? Nooo. Do they ask them if they are allowed to kill them to provide necessary food for their family? Nooo. They come neatly prepackaged, theyīre unable to touch blood! And imagine... wohohoooo... they even have pets! They make a distinction between their beloved dog and the bull going into the next Big Mac! Now isnīt this a bewildering, cruel culture."

Now, if Africa is looking at us mildly bewildered, ok. If Africans form Anti-McDonalds ProAnimals groups, ok (needless to say they wonīt do that because they really have other things to worry about, f.e. not to starve). If they try to change things slowly, to explain, to educate f.e. for different forms of dealing with food production, beautiful. Like us vice versa.

But if they condemned all America, every American, the American culture, they would be wrong, wouldnīt they? Apart from the differences in strength between the two powers, that Iīm not going to lay out here, because everyone knows, and the extreme thievery of resources practised by our western world in Africa.

To jump back to the original theme: Even if some things go, in our opinion, the wrong way in Africa, this continent doesnīt deserve "cultural" or any other intolerance, but deserves our help (and not our "cultural", but our financial help - - - which doesnīt include foreign direct investment).
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Old 07-15-2002, 07:14 PM   #44
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I stand corrected.

I guess I was looking at it the same way I live my life. I am not perfect and I have faults. But if I am at the grocery store and I see a guy beating up his wife and/or kids, I will do something to stop it.

I view cultures the same way. Western culture admittedly has problems; I will not claim that it is innocent. But rather than accepting the attrocities committed under the excuse/cover of "culture" and "tradition," I think that, as a good friend once said, "maybe it is the culture that needs some improvement."

Perhaps I should have worded my initial statement differently; it is not the entire culture of any group that I am intolerant of, but there are many cultures that continue acts that I do not tolerate, or "accept." I will never tolerate genital mutilation, "honor killings," execution of "apostates," dimmi systems, caste systems, "racial supremacy," suppression of women/amputees/gays/the list goes on, etc.

~U2Alabama
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Old 07-15-2002, 07:59 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by adamswildhoney
This is horrible! Im totally disgusted with how some people treat other people. It makes me very angry that things like this happen to innocent people!

Me too. That's all I can say. It's an atrocity.
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