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Old 07-21-2007, 11:26 PM   #16
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Re: This guy gives me hope for the future of true Christianity

Quote:
Originally posted by U2isthebest
http://www.motherjones.com/interview...jaybakker.html

I've always loved his mom and dad, regardless of what people say about them. His mother especially is such an example of true godly woman the best way she knew how; by being who she is.

I'm glad he's following her example. I hope to hear a lot more from him in the future. All I can say is thank God for using people like Jaime who know how to love unconditonally without judgement. That's what my Bible says love is.


The Bible also has a lot to say about sin.

Jaime's mistake, in my view, is not reaching out and loving homosexuals, but not telling the truth about sin.

Homosexuality is clearly defined, in my reading and understanding, as a sin according to the scriptures.

I realize that many here will disagree andI hope this thread does not dissolve into a debate on homosexuality. I'm just stating my belief, not trying to convince anyone.

I'm just saying that Jaime Baker is not, too me, some great leader I should follow for 'true Christainity.'

That T. J. Jakes or whatever his name is...

I don't follow him either.
Beware of TV Religion :eek





Once a rebel came from Narzareth >>>>

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Old 07-21-2007, 11:31 PM   #17
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I don't "follow" him, but we all have to have people we look up to in some sense to help guide us on our faith walk. Jaime and T.D. Jakes happen to be a couple of mine. I happen to feel similar to Jaime on the issue of homosexuality, and I really am not interested in any self-righteous ass's take on my opinion. I've felt that way for quite some time now, and I can say that Jaime had nothing to do with it. I was just listening to Jaime's messages where he talks extensively about this issue, and he said what I've always thought: In the end who really cares what I, or you, or anyone else thinks of this issue? I'm saved because I belive Jesus died for my sins, not for my stance on any political/social issue. (Please don't think I'm referring to you with that! I'm not! That's just a general statement about a lot of the Christian world)
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Old 07-21-2007, 11:34 PM   #18
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Re: Re: This guy gives me hope for the future of true Christianity

Quote:
Originally posted by the iron horse




The Bible also has a lot to say about sin.

Jaime's mistake, in my view, is not reaching out and loving homosexuals, but not telling the truth about sin.

Homosexuality is clearly defined, in my reading and understanding, as a sin according to the scriptures.

I realize that many here will disagree andI hope this thread does not dissolve into a debate on homosexuality. I'm just stating my belief, not trying to convince anyone.

I'm just saying that Jaime Baker is not, too me, some great leader I should follow for 'true Christainity.'

That T. J. Jakes or whatever his name is...

I don't follow him either.
Beware of TV Religion :eek





Once a rebel came from Narzareth >>>>

Do you have any other issues with Bakker beyond his "gay-affirming" church? The vibe I got from that interview with him was not at all the TV Religion vibe or the T.D. Jakes vibe (though I know nothing about Jakes, I suppose he's more the big megachurch, picture of him plastered on a billboard plus best-selling book type, at least based on appearance. . .which of course is a horrible way to judge. . .at any rate I didn't get the impression that Bakker was anything like that).
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Old 07-21-2007, 11:38 PM   #19
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Re: Re: This guy gives me hope for the future of true Christianity

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Originally posted by the iron horse
Jaime's mistake, in my view, is not reaching out and loving homosexuals, but not telling the truth about sin.

Homosexuality is clearly defined, in my reading and understanding, as a sin according to the scriptures.

I realize that many here will disagree andI hope this thread does not dissolve into a debate on homosexuality. I'm just stating my belief, not trying to convince anyone.
Well, you're opening that can of worms by making a bold, misinterpreted statement like that.
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Old 07-21-2007, 11:40 PM   #20
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Re: Re: This guy gives me hope for the future of true Christianity

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Originally posted by the iron horse






Jaime's mistake, in my view, is not reaching out and loving homosexuals, but not telling the truth about sin.

And can I just say that I find it really frustrating, the implication here that people like Bakker are taking this stand because "they don't care about sin."

It should be quite clear from Bakker's interview that his stand is NOT based on lackadaisical view of sin. . .He's taken the stand he has because to take any other stand, in his view, WOULD be sin. It would be wrong and he cannot violate his conscience, what he believes God is telling him to do.

Now you can argue that he's mistaken and maybe he is (and maybe he isn't). But lets not have this pablum about not telling the truth about sin.
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Old 07-22-2007, 12:03 AM   #21
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Re: Re: Re: This guy gives me hope for the future of true Christianity

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Originally posted by maycocksean


And can I just say that I find it really frustrating, the implication here that people like Bakker are taking this stand because "they don't care about sin."

It should be quite clear from Bakker's interview that his stand is NOT based on lackadaisical view of sin. . .He's taken the stand he has because to take any other stand, in his view, WOULD be sin. It would be wrong and he cannot violate his conscience, what he believes God is telling him to do.

Now you can argue that he's mistaken and maybe he is (and maybe he isn't). But lets not have this pablum about not telling the truth about sin.
You took the words right out of my mouth; just in a more eloquent yet simple way.
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Old 07-22-2007, 12:14 AM   #22
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A while ago I began to believe that the entire notion of sin is kind of nonsensical to me. Don't believe in it, and don't believe in hell either.
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Old 07-22-2007, 12:22 AM   #23
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Re: Re: This guy gives me hope for the future of true Christianity

Quote:
Originally posted by the iron horse


Jaime's mistake, in my view, is not reaching out and loving homosexuals, but not telling the truth about sin.

Homosexuality is clearly defined, in my reading and understanding, as a sin according to the scriptures.

I realize that many here will disagree andI hope this thread does not dissolve into a debate on homosexuality. I'm just stating my belief, not trying to convince anyone.


and your little rebel from Nazareth would be *embarassed* at your misreading and misrepresentation of the Bible.

after all, Jesus had so much to say about gay people.

so i'll say it point blank: your belief is a misformulation based upon centuries of prejudice, and within my lifetime, you'll be backing away from such assertions in the same way that Christians now back away from long-ago beliefs about the Bible supporting slavery and opposing interracial marriage. so, my advice is to get it over with and repent and apologize and understand that the "biblical" view on a 100% natural sexual orientation that (shock! horror!) might be different from your own is not sinful, is not shameful, the Bible -- which, for goodness sakes, warns against mixing different strands of fabrics -- says *nothing* about any sort of contemporary understanding of a gay identity and a gay relationship, and that gay people are no more moral or immoral than straight people.

i'm trying to help you out. trust me, you'll thank me for this.

oh, RIP Tammy Faye.
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Old 07-22-2007, 12:48 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
A while ago I began to believe that the entire notion of sin is kind of nonsensical to me. Don't believe in it, and don't believe in hell either.
Same here really. I can't shake the feeling that the notions of sin and hell are 'concocted' solely to give credence to the need for a saviour. I find it difficult to see them as anything else than fine pieces of marketing.
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Old 07-22-2007, 01:59 AM   #25
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"sin" is how the powerful keep the powerless in line.
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Old 07-22-2007, 02:44 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
"sin" is how the powerful keep the powerless in line.
Yeah, moving on...

The only way you could "misinterpret" the Bible's view of homosexuality is if you're illiterate. Honestly, it's right in there. People's fear of admitting what is in there is part of our conditioning by the media and society in general to compromise our beliefs if they're too radical or just not PC enough. My Bible says to love thy neighbor, even if they're gay. Guess what, that means I'm supposed to love them enough to tell them what the rest of the Bible says too, to keep them from burning in Hell. And honestly, don't get mad at me for saying that; I'm not the one who wrote the Bible. "Love" is too often misinterpreted as being nice or kissing ass, but, according to Jesus himself, the greatest love is laying down your life for your friends (John 15:13), which sometimes involves putting yourself in a position to be called a hateful bastard, for the sake of telling them the truth.

Word up, bitches.
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Old 07-22-2007, 03:04 AM   #27
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^

You are kidding, aren't you?
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Old 07-22-2007, 03:07 AM   #28
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Re: Re: Re: This guy gives me hope for the future of true Christianity

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

and your little rebel from Nazareth would be *embarassed* at your misreading and misrepresentation of the Bible.

after all, Jesus had so much to say about gay people.

so i'll say it point blank: your belief is a misformulation based upon centuries of prejudice, and within my lifetime, you'll be backing away from such assertions in the same way that Christians now back away from long-ago beliefs about the Bible supporting slavery and opposing interracial marriage. so, my advice is to get it over with and repent and apologize and understand that the "biblical" view on a 100% natural sexual orientation that (shock! horror!) might be different from your own is not sinful, is not shameful, the Bible -- which, for goodness sakes, warns against mixing different strands of fabrics -- says *nothing* about any sort of contemporary understanding of a gay identity and a gay relationship, and that gay people are no more moral or immoral than straight people.
Ridiculous. Honestly, this is like shooting fish in a barrel.

Quote:
Matthew 5:17: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
What does this mean to you?

THAT OLD TESTAMENT BOOK STILL APPLIES.

I don't make life decisions that God would not approve of simply because there's not an exact scripture that relates to my situation. There's a pretty broad HOMOSEXUALITY = BAD near the beginning of the book that, apparently, Jesus did not wish to argue with.

Your interpretation of the Bible is made through tinted glasses. I don't care if you think the whole thing is a damn fairytale, but please interpret it correctly so you don't mislead anyone. I have no idea why you're arguing in a Christian thread when you are not even a Christian anyway.
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Old 07-22-2007, 03:14 AM   #29
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hmm...I guess you aren't kidding. You're just wrong.

Kind of sad to see such ignorance in one so young.
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Old 07-22-2007, 04:00 AM   #30
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I'm appalled at some of these "christian" reactions...

You should be ashamed of yourselves...
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