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Old 06-23-2003, 03:24 PM   #16
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And I believe that just trusting the government without questioning is very dangerous and the first step in the road to losing rights. Power and secrecy are a very dangerous combination and as much as I'd like to believe that we would never abuse justice, human beings are finite and governments equally so. I think it's vital for citizens to remain alert and to question the validity of actions such as what's happening in Guantanamo. While the current administration may think they are justified in doing what they are doing, they could be wrong. And if we expect to be taken seriously outside our own borders, it is paramount that we be trustworthy and fair. If the rest of the world sees us applying one standard to ourselves and a different one to the rest of the world, it will recognize it as hypocrisy and our quest for safety and international cooperation will be compromised.

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Old 06-23-2003, 03:46 PM   #17
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Originally posted by ouizy
As much as I disapprove of some of Bush's beliefs and actions, can you give examples of this:

Also, from what I understand the gov't has not done anything agains the laws of the US by holding detainees at Gitmo.

Also, why is it our right to know how these people were detained?

Does that not have to do with National Security?
I'm not saying it's our right to know, but what we do know is that these individuals have been held, some up to a year without any convictions. I ask how they were detained because I would really like to know why so many assume that these individuals are guilty. Were they caught in the act? Holding their membership card? Or just in the wrong place at the wrong time?

As far as examples of how this administration has divided us...look at the this administraions actions on affirmative action, and many economic experts believe Bush's economic policies will create a greater divide between rich and poor, and now you can be labeled terrorist and it's ok if your basic human rights and due process is taken away from you. I'm getting off topic here but we could get much deeper into this in another thread perhaps.

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Old 06-23-2003, 04:06 PM   #18
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Originally posted by sulawesigirl4
errr, dread, if you check at the top of the article you will find that it's from the AP. I believe they're generally considered to be a somewhat reliable source.

btw, were you going to provide a link because I can't see it.
Please notice I winked when I typed in "propaganda". I said it in jest.

AS to the link missing, my apologies, I am suffering from a migrane attack...hence the mistakes I have made on the board today.

HEre is the link:
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Old 06-23-2003, 04:23 PM   #19
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One small note......I have skimmed the report.......and my skimming it appears that the abuses that happened.....were not systemic abuses by both of the detention centers. It appears from reading the report that they happened in the Brooklynn Detention Center. The report makes a few references to the fact that the New Jersey Detention Center was run quite well.

What does this mean? In my mind Ashcroft and the Governement are not responsible given there was a distinct difference in the treatment of the detainees. AS to who is responsible, the officers and the person running the Detention Center in Brooklynn should 100% be held accountable for their actions.
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Old 06-23-2003, 04:51 PM   #20
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I agree, they just can't assume these guys are terrorists. They have to prove it. I'll be damned if I have any sympathy or whatever for the Taliban. They are some of the worst 's I've ever read about--in the same league as Ceceauscu and Milosevic. It does come back to proving these guys had anything to do with these terrorist scumbag operations.

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