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Old 02-26-2008, 06:19 PM   #31
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Because it is so easy for each and every person to just change the job at the drop of a hat.
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Old 02-26-2008, 09:06 PM   #32
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Originally posted by Abomb-baby


The issue isn't about second hand smoke. Its about control and Government telling you whats best for you. Is smoking healthy? No. But there are plenty of unhealthy things that people do that the Government hasn't gotten themselves involved in. People who go to Pubs and bars where there is smoking are making a choice. The funy thing is that where I live we have Casinos that are run by the tribes and they don't fall under state law. So basically, the smokers just moved. I just think that we are on a slippery slope regarding government involvement with these issues.
My rule of thumb is that if the action only harms myself then the government should stay out of it. If my action may potentially harm others, then the government should get involved. One of the basic functions of government is to keep it's citizens safe from each other.

I'll ask again:

Whose rights are more important? The smoker or the non-smoker?
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Old 02-26-2008, 10:56 PM   #33
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I smoke. I've adjusted to the limitations. No big deal. Nonsmokers trump and should. (And I've had some fun conversations with people I never would have met while we were outside smoking in the rain--nothing quite bonds you like being a social pariah) While I was always a fairly considerate smoker, I'm obviously a more considerate smoker when I'm forced to be. The laws don't bother me.

I suppose if they make a law about smoking in my own house, I'd probably break it.
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Old 02-26-2008, 11:29 PM   #34
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I'm a smoker and live in a city (state) that brought in total smoking bans in bars about a year ago. It's way, way better.
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Old 02-27-2008, 09:20 PM   #35
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
The problem I see is that most of these "articles" posted by Iron Horse(and I use the quotes because this one was horribly written and lack any real purpose) completely damage their cause. Comparing it to Nazi Germany? Come on!!!

Like I said, I understand there are extremes on both sides. And both extremes bother me. Anyone who thinks they should be able to smoke anywhere at anytime and deny all evidence of second hand smoke is an idiot. Just like anyone trying to make someone purchase a license to smoke is an idiot.

BonoVoxSupastar,

I don't know why you seem to continually misread the point I am trying to make.

As for secondhand smoke:

You post your evidence and I'll do the the tit for for tat.


Me first!!! *cough...i have a cold

If secondhand smoke is a killer, then most of the the baby boomers should be dead now because they were raised surrounded by smoke everywhere.
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Old 02-27-2008, 09:50 PM   #36
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Originally posted by the iron horse
If secondhand smoke is a killer, then most of the the baby boomers should be dead now because they were raised surrounded by smoke everywhere.
That line of thinking does not work because if you look at the actual percentages of smokers that develop lung cancer it tops at around 20%. The majority of smokers will never develop lung cancer, but these chances are 10-60 fold higher than the nonsmoking population. This is not including the slew of other diseases that smoking contributes to.

Here's an actual number for you, about 3000 nonsmokers die each year from breathing in secondhand smoke. That's straight out my pathology book and you don't mess with Robbins and Cotran. Secondhand smoke is bad for anybody. Again most people won't develop cancer, but those 3000 people die needlessly because of other people.
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Old 02-27-2008, 09:59 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by the iron horse

I don't know why you seem to continually misread the point I am trying to make.
Well then why don't you try to spell out your point for all of us.


Quote:
Originally posted by the iron horse

As for secondhand smoke:

You post your evidence and I'll do the the tit for for tat.


Me first!!! *cough...i have a cold

If secondhand smoke is a killer, then most of the the baby boomers should be dead now because they were raised surrounded by smoke everywhere.
This isn't evidence. And I can sit here and post scientific evidence, but you have a history of denying science for articles of circumstantial evidence and pseudo-science.

Let me ask you this, do you even believe firsthand smoke can kill?
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Old 02-27-2008, 10:04 PM   #38
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My answer to the past two post:

http://www.forces.org/evidence/evid/second.htm


Take care
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Old 02-27-2008, 10:09 PM   #39
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Soon every one will have to get up early to do their daily exercises like they did in China under Mao. The problem with all these political correctness, anti smoking and anti fat stuff is that there are more serious problems in this country that need to be taken care of. Banning smoking doesn't clean up the smog in Los Angeles. Los Angeles is one city that needs mass transit because it has the worse air quality in the United States and I don't think that its from second hand smoke. Car exhaust isn't too great for asthma and can give you cancer. Oliver Cromwell is alive and well in America.
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Old 02-27-2008, 10:19 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by the iron horse
My answer to the past two post:

http://www.forces.org/evidence/evid/second.htm


Take care
See this is why I no longer really bother with your posts anymore. I asked you two very specific questions and all you do is post a website, and one that is once again paticularly shitty. It's just a vomit of blurbs from different studies and of course the obligatory nazi references.

I always thought you libertarians thought for yourselves. It's ok to use specific articles from websites, but just throwing up an entire website shows a lack of real thought and reason.
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Old 02-27-2008, 10:22 PM   #41
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Originally posted by watergate
he problem with all these political correctness, anti smoking and anti fat stuff is that there are more serious problems in this country that need to be taken care of.
Given the number of obese people in this country and the widespread implications that their potential poor health has, I would say that the anti-fat stuff is pretty important.
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Old 02-27-2008, 10:23 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


See this is why I no longer really bother with your posts anymore. I asked you two very specific questions and all you do is post a website, and one that is once again paticularly shitty. It's just a vomit of blurbs from different studies and of course the obligatory nazi references.

I always thought you libertarians thought for yourselves. It's ok to use specific articles from websites, but just throwing up an entire website shows a lack of real thought and reason.

I'm just a fool laughing about freedom.

I know I will be dead soon,


but with freedom comes faith
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Old 02-27-2008, 10:34 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by the iron horse



I'm just a fool laughing about freedom.

Freedom means very little if you can't discuss the issues.
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Old 02-27-2008, 11:51 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


I always thought you libertarians thought for yourselves.
They're pretty much the worst for group-think.
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Old 02-27-2008, 11:53 PM   #45
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Originally posted by watergate
Soon every one will have to get up early to do their daily exercises like they did in China under Mao.
Old school! Nothing quite like calling your enemy a Communist.

Except that nobody cares anymore.
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