THEOCRACY WATCH!!! Texas Gov signs anti-gay, anti-choice legislation in church

[martha]

Sorry boys, but it's my body.

None of your scary videos, righteous indignation, odd comparisons, or "compassion" for the "unborn" take away my right to determine my own reproductive matters.

If you men don't want women to abort an unwanted pregnancy, what you need to support then is all the programs out there that provide effective birth control and education for women and girls. Just babbling on about the "horror of abortion on demand" isn't enough. With education and access to effective and safe birth control, we'll both be happy. Unfortunately, I only see the support of this from the pro-choice community. The anti-choice community would rather spend its time scaring the shit out of people and blockading clinics that provide women access to safe and effective health care and family planning.

So, in conclusion, put up or shut up. Make birth control and education easy to get and easy to use and then you'll see fewer abortions.

Babble on all you want, MEN, but I'm still here with this. You don't get to decide whether I have children or not.



You just don't.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Just popping in to say this really quickly:

And besides, are you aware that there are many already existing laws that say what a woman can and can't do with her body? A woman can't use her body to smuggle illegal narcotics into this country. A woman can't fill her body with an excess of alcohol and get behind the wheel of a car.

Yeah, because those activities affect other people. A great deal of other people, potentially. As of now, like it or not, there's still debate over the whole fetus being a baby thing and all that, so...

Originally posted by OneBadStay
In almost every state, a woman is not allowed to rent her body out to men who want sex.

And I think that's stupid. If a woman chooses to do that, and it's all safely done and everything, it IS her body and if she wants to use it for those purposes, I say she should be allowed to.

Okay. Now I'm shutting up.

Angela

 

[80sU2isBest]

Babble on all you want, MEN, but I'm still here with this. You don't get to decide whether I have children or not.
You just don't.

Martha, please read the following, and then answer the following questions:

1)Is the fetus a living human being?
2)If not, what is it?
3)If it is a living human being, are you really comfortable with chamioning the right to kill it?

From the American Pregnancy Organization:

http://www.americanpregnancy.org/un...velopment1.html

Week 3 - Gestational Age (Fetal Age - Week 1):
The embryo is going through lots of basic growth at this time, with the beginning development of the brain, spinal cord, heart and gastrointestinal tract.

Week 4 & 5 - Gestational Age (Fetal Age - Weeks 2 & 3):
Arm and leg buds are visible, but not clearly distinguishable. The heart is now beating at a steady rhythm. The placenta has begun to form and is producing some important hormones including hCG. There is movement of rudimentary blood through the main vessels. The early structures that will become the eyes and ears are forming. The embryo is ¼ inch long by the end of these weeks.

Week 6 - Gestational Age (Fetal Age - Week 4):
The formation of the lungs, jaw, nose and palate begin now. The hand and feet buds have webbed looking structures that will become the fingers and toes. The brain is continuing to form into its complex parts. A vaginal ultrasound could detect an audible heartbeat at this time. The embryo is about a ½ inch in length.

Week 7 - Gestational Age (Fetal Age - Week 5):
At 7 weeks gestation, every essential organ has begun to form in the embryo’s tiny body even though it still weighs less than an aspirin. The hair and nipple follicles are forming, and the eyelids and tongue have begun formation. The elbows and toes are more visible as the trunk begins to straighten out.

Week 8 - Gestational Age (Fetal Age - Week 6):
The ears are continuing to form externally and internally. Everything that is present in an adult human is now present in the small embryo. The bones are beginning to form and the muscles can contract. The facial features continue to mature and the eyelids are now more developed. The embryo is at the end of the embryonic period and begins the fetal period. The embryo is about 1 inch long and is the size of a bean.

 

[deep]

80s

your link did not work



is this it

http://www.americanpregnancy.org./duringpregnancy/fetaldevelopment1.htm

 

[martha]

80s, my answer is that no matter what "facts" you and your pals dig up, no matter how much you "care for the unborn", I still put living, breathing women first. If a woman decides for whatever reason that she cannot carry the pregnancy to term, she has the unalterable right to make that decision and carry it out without interference from YOU and all of your other pals who think that her body is somehow your dominion. No bullhorns outside of women's clinics, no horrible photos of mangled fetuses, no heartfelt prayers for the "preborn"'s soul gives you the right to make healthcare decisions for complete strangers.

I'm thrilled beyond all measure that you think "an embyro about 1 inch long and the size of a bean" is more important than the living, breathing woman it's inside. Just thrilled. I look forward to your contributions to Planned Parenthood to support their programs of prenancy prevention, so your goal of ending abortion is realized more quickly.

Write that check, 80s; it's more tax deductible than your RNC contributions are. Lord knows it'll go farther to end abortion.

 

[joyfulgirl]

Thanks, martha, for fighting the fight in here that I don't have the energy to anymore.

(not that it's a fight, but you know what I mean)

 

[80sU2isBest]

80s, my answer is that no matter what "facts" you and your pals dig up, no matter how much you "care for the unborn", I still put living, breathing women first. If a woman decides for whatever reason that she cannot carry the pregnancy to term, she has the unalterable right to make that decision and carry it out without interference from YOU and all of your other pals who think that her body is somehow your dominion. No bullhorns outside of women's clinics, no horrible photos of mangled fetuses, no heartfelt prayers for the "preborn"'s soul gives you the right to make healthcare decisions for complete strangers.

Martha, if you keep ignoring the biological facts that people post for you, and just keep repeating the same "woman's right" mantra, people will stop paying attention to what you have to say about the issue. I know I will, especially since you even go so far as to admit that you are dodging the facts, saying "no matter what "facts" you and your pals dig up, no matter how much you "care for the unborn", I still put living, breathing women first."

Some people say that when a woman's life is in danger, she should have the right to an abortion. But what you are telling me is that a woman has a right to an abortion no matter what the reason. In effect, what you are telling me, is that a woman has a right to 9 months' convenience, even if it kills a developing human being.

[Originally posted by martha


Write that check, 80s; it's more tax deductible than your RNC contributions are. Lord knows it'll go farther to end abortion.

For your information, Martha, I financially support prolife organizations that help women in crisis pregnanacies. Why don't you start giving financial help to these organizations? I consider Planned Parenthood, to be a referral center for abortion mills. Why then, being pro-life, would give them one thin dime?

 

[80sU2isBest]

80s

your link did not work



is this it

http://www.americanpregnancy.org./duringpregnancy/fetaldevelopment1.htm

Yes, thank you.

 

[Infinity]

Babble on all you want, MEN, but I'm still here with this. You don't get to decide whether I have children or not.



You just don't.

Women who think that men want to prevent abortions so they can have power over women are absolutely extremely stupid.

Yea your right, we can't decide if you have children or not. But once YOU decide to have children and your child has begun to form, you shouldn't be able to kill the developing child inside of you.

 

[Infinity]

I'm thrilled beyond all measure that you think "an embyro about 1 inch long and the size of a bean" is more important than the living, breathing woman it's inside.

An absolutely idiotic statement. Just because it is 1 inch long and the size of a bean does not mean it doesn't feel, or that it is not a baby forming. Just because you are larger, doesn't mean you are more important.

 

[martha]

Originally posted by Infinitum98

women are absolutely extremely stupid.



You keep saying this over and over.

 

[BVS]

An absolutely idiotic statement. Just because it is 1 inch long and the size of a bean does not mean it doesn't feel, or that it is not a baby forming. Just because you are larger, doesn't mean you are more important.

Wow, insensitivety, personal attacks, and a huge lack of scientific understanding all in one post.

 

[martha]

Martha, if you keep ignoring the biological facts that people post for you, and just keep repeating the same "woman's right" mantra, people will stop paying attention to what you have to say about the issue. I know I will,

You already have. For years.

And I'm not ignoring the facts you like to repeat. I put them in a different perspective.

Some people say that when a woman's life is in danger, she should have the right to an abortion. But what you are telling me is that a woman has a right to an abortion no matter what the reason.

Yes. No woman should have to prove anything to you in order to make her healthcare decisions.

In effect, what you are telling me, is that a woman has a right to 9 months' convenience, even if it kills a developing human being.

You know better than that. It's not 9 months' convenience. It's a lifetime decision she's making. You and your ilk like to think that women make these decisions lightly, when even you know that's just not true.

For your information, Martha, I financially support prolife organizations that help women in crisis pregnanacies. Why don't you start giving financial help to these organizations? I consider Planned Parenthood, to be a referral center for abortion mills. Why then, being pro-life, would give them one thin dime?

I'm glad you actually put your money where your mouth is, 80s. Do these organizations do anything at all to actually help women prevent unplanned pregnancies? Or do they just address the open barn door after the horse has already escaped?

However, your ignorance about Planned Parenthood isn't surprising.

 

[martha]

Wow, insensitivety, personal attacks, and a huge lack of scientific understanding all in one post.

Yeah. This guy excels at those. In all the forums.

 

[nanavancouver]

80s, my answer is that no matter what "facts" you and your pals dig up, no matter how much you "care for the unborn", I still put living, breathing women first. If a woman decides for whatever reason that she cannot carry the pregnancy to term, she has the unalterable right to make that decision and carry it out without interference from YOU and all of your other pals who think that her body is somehow your dominion. No bullhorns outside of women's clinics, no horrible photos of mangled fetuses, no heartfelt prayers for the "preborn"'s soul gives you the right to make healthcare decisions for complete strangers.

I'm thrilled beyond all measure that you think "an embyro about 1 inch long and the size of a bean" is more important than the living, breathing woman it's inside. Just thrilled. I look forward to your contributions to Planned Parenthood to support their programs of prenancy prevention, so your goal of ending abortion is realized more quickly.

Write that check, 80s; it's more tax deductible than your RNC contributions are. Lord knows it'll go farther to end abortion.

 

[Infinity]

Wow, insensitivety, personal attacks, and a huge lack of scientific understanding all in one post.

Insensitivety? I think all you pro-choice (anti-life) people are insensitive. No lack of scientific understanding? How about you prove to me that just because the embryo is a 1 inch tall that it cannot feel pain or that it is not a forming baby. So you have a huge lack of scientific understanding.

 

[Infinity]

Originally posted by Infinitum98

women are absolutely extremely stupid.



You keep saying this over and over.

I DID NOT say that women are stupid. So don't put words into my mouth. Go back and read what I wrote. I said that women who believe that men want to have power over women by preventing abortions are stupid.

 

[Infinity]

Yeah. This guy excels at those. In all the forums.

Nope not in all the forums. I never write any harsh statements against anybody unless they offend me. I believe it was you who started the riff between us. I wrote a theory about how people get less creative as they get old in the "New U2 Album 2006" forum. And YOU said my theory was BULLSHIT. That was a personal attack.

 

[BVS]

Insensitivety? I think all you pro-choice (anti-life) people are insensitive. No lack of scientific understanding? How about you prove to me that just because the embryo is a 1 inch tall that it cannot feel pain or that it is not a forming baby. So you have a huge lack of scientific understanding.

Embryo at 1 inch doesn't have the developed brain to "feel" anything, it doesn't have the ability to process. So please at least try in the future.

 

[Infinity]

Embryo at 1 inch doesn't have the developed brain to "feel" anything, it doesn't have the ability to process. So please at least try in the future.

It is still a forming baby. And yes I did try. Maybe you should try to not be stubborn and understand that an embryo or fetus is not a female body part. Just try.

 

[BVS]

It is still a forming baby. And yes I did try. Maybe you should try to not be stubborn and understand that an embryo or fetus is not a female body part. Just try.

No, trying would be to not make statements like "a one month old fetus sucks it's thumb" or continuing the misinformation about "feeling".

Trying would also mean not misquoting me, I never said that an embryo or fetus is a female body part. So I would appreciate you stop the personal attacks and calling me 'stubborn'.

Yes it's FORMING, but not human life yet.

 

[Infinity]

No, trying would be to not make statements like "a one month old fetus sucks it's thumb" or continuing the misinformation about "feeling".

Trying would also mean not misquoting me, I never said that an embryo or fetus is a female body part. So I would appreciate you stop the personal attacks and calling me 'stubborn'.

Yes it's FORMING, but not human life yet.

It is a human life, and it is forming to become a 'born baby.' A baby is human life, an embryo is human life, a fetus is human life.

 

[BVS]

It is a human life, and it is forming to become a 'born baby.' A baby is human life, an embryo is human life, a fetus is human life.

Well then your understanding of science and what makes human life is different than mine.

 

[80sU2isBest]

And I'm not ignoring the facts you like to repeat. I put them in a different perspective.

Into what other "perspective" can you put the following into, other than "living human being"?

"beginning development of the brain, spinal cord, heart and gastrointestinal tract"

"heart is now beating at a steady rhythm"

"The formation of the lungs, jaw, nose and palate begin now"

Yes. No woman should have to prove anything to you in order to make her healthcare decisions.

Me? Why would she have to prove anything to me? Since when am I doctor that would decide whether her life is in danger? And if I were a doctor, what exact;y would she have to "prove" to me?

You and your ilk like to think that women make these decisions lightly, when even you know that's just not true.

I don't think women make these decisions lightly. Choosing life is often a very hard thing for women to do - but I applaud the women who take a stand for precious babies.

Have I ever used the word "ilk" toward you? No. But you have used it toward me. It had very negative connotations. Where's the respect and tolerance for people of other opinions? Or do you only have respect and tolerance for those who agree with you?

I'm glad you actually put your money where your mouth is, 80s. Do these organizations do anything at all to actually help women prevent unplanned pregnancies? Or do they just address the open barn door after the horse has already escaped?

Hey, my idea of preventing unplanned pregnancies is much more effective than yours; if you aren't mature enough to have a baby, don't have sex. A baby is a natural consequence of sex - if a person isn't responsible enough to deal with the possible consequences of raising a baby, the person's not responsible enough for sex. And when a child is conceived, it's time for the mom and dad to step forward and do right by the baby.

 

[anitram]

Hey, my idea of preventing unplanned pregnancies is much more effective than yours; if you aren't mature enough to have a baby, don't have sex.

That's effective? Are you joking?

The reality is that from the beginning of time, men and women have had sex, sometimes resulting in pregnancy. It is neither effective, nor realistic to believe that abstinence will ever work. It never has, and it never will.

And there is also an apparent correlation made between maturity and having a child. There is no way you can state with any certainty that women who choose not to carry their pregnancy to term have a maturity issue.

 

[A_Wanderer]

An embryo is not a fully formed and functioning human being. It is not a question of science it is one of philosophy.

Hey, my idea of preventing unplanned pregnancies is much more effective than yours; if you aren't mature enough to have a baby, don't have sex. A baby is a natural consequence of sex - if a person isn't responsible enough to deal with the possible consequences of raising a baby, the person's not responsible enough for sex. And when a child is conceived, it's time for the mom and dad to step forward and do right by the baby.

Yeah, thats exactly what the world needs, more irresponsible parents out there.

 

[80sU2isBest]

That's effective? Are you joking?

The reality is that from the beginning of time, men and women have had sex, sometimes resulting in pregnancy. It is neither effective, nor realistic to believe that abstinence will ever work. It never has, and it never will.

Abstinence is not effective? You've got to be kidding. Name one time, other than the birth of Christ, that abstinence has resulted in the birth of a baby.

 

[80sU2isBest]

Yeah, thats exactly what the world needs, more irresponsible parents out there.

I am not advocating that 13 and 14 years old, or any irresponsible people raise children. They can put the babies up for adoption, can't they? When I said "when a child is conceived, it's time for the mom and dad to step forward and do right by the baby", sometimes the "right thing" is to give the child to people who will be able to raise it.

 

[anitram]

Abstinence is not effective?

The act of abstinence is effective.

Every person on this planet who is not married and/or mature practicing abstinence? Completely and absolutely unrealistic.

Show me one time in the history of man where this has worked as a method of birth control?

It's advocacy of this type of thinking that results in a lack of effective birth control. Some of us like to operate within the scope of reality in which we live, and that reality dictates that the notion of abstinence as birth control is a big, fat failure. So you can either bury your head in the sand or provide accessible birth control to everyone on the planet if abortions horrify you so.

 

[80sU2isBest]

An embryo is not a fully formed and functioning human being. It is not a question of science it is one of philosophy.

I will never ever understand how anyone can say that a fetus, with human arms and legs and a human heartbeat and a developing human brain that can suck its thumb and feel pain is not a living human being.

In 1984 President Reagan said: "When the lives of the unborn are snuffed out, they often feel pain, pain that is long and agonizing." President Ronald Reagan to National Religious Broadcasters, New York Times, Jan. 31, 1984

This provoked a public reaction from pro-abortion circles and a response from an auspicious group of professors, including pain specialists and two past presidents of the American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology.

They strongly backed Mr. Reagan and produced substantial documentation. Excerpts of their letter (2/13/84) to him included:

"Real time ultrasonography, fetoscopy, study of the fetal EKG (electrocardiogram) and fetal EEG (electroencephalogram) have demonstrated the remarkable responsiveness of the human fetus to pain, touch, and sound. That the fetus responds to changes in light intensity within the womb, to heat, to cold, and to taste (by altering the chemical nature of the fluid swallowed by the fetus) has been exquisitely documented in the pioneering work of the late Sir William Lily — the father of fetology. We state categorically that no finding of modern fetology invalidates the remarkable conclusion drawn after a lifetime of research by the late Professor Arnold Gesell of Yale University. In The Embryology of Behavior: The Beginnings of the Human Mind (1945, Harper Bros.), Dr. Gesell wrote, "and so by the close of the first trimester the fetus is a sentient, moving being. We need not speculate as to the nature of his psychic attributes, but we may assert that the organization of his psychosomatic self is well under way."