THEOCRACY WATCH!!! Texas Gov signs anti-gay, anti-choice legislation in church - Page 5 - U2 Feedback

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Old 06-07-2005, 03:46 PM   #61
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
That's not "my" terms of argument. I've been talking about Conservative Republicans in general, not just politicians.


yes. you've been working under a misformulation of the terms of argument. i was encouraging you to get your terms in order so that a proper comparison can be made. conservative republican politicians can damage that gay man on the pride float in ways that that gay man on a pride float could never damage a conservative republican politician.

but if you'd like to shift the terms, and compare your average gay man (we'll assume, for the sake of argument, that he's liberal and democrate even though many gay men are quite libertarian and would probably be Republicans if it were not for the party definining itself around homophobia, which it is doing as evidenced in countless gay bashing legislation at the state level and proposing to amend the constitution at the federal level) to your average Conservative Republican. firstly, the number of Conservative Republicans out numbers the number of liberal democratic gay men by a lot. secondly, it's the Conservative Republicans who seem to be much, much more interested in what that gay man does behind doors than the gay man is in what goes on behind closed doors in the life of your average conservative Republican. the result, you see, is that Conservative Republicans, through the ways in which they vote, which is usually but not always for other Conservative Republicans, provides their representatives with incentives to regulate and, essentially, discriminate against the personal life of a liberal democratic gay man. he has neither the political means, nor even the interest, to do damage to the life of a Conservative Republican whereas said Conservative Republicans -- as we've said before, not all, and it is the sign of a mature person who can speak in broad strokes while understanding that, obviously, we do not mean *everybody* -- base much of that political identity around taking anti-gay stances. this might not apply to you, as an individual, but if you ask anybody, from Conservative Republicans to libertarians to Liberal Democrats, they will pretty much all agree that one componant of a Conservative Republican identity is the belief that the government must be used to regulate and control personal behavior. Rick Santorum believes this; Tom DeLay believes this; the states of Texas and Alabama believe this. they've made gay people scapegoats for any number of social failures in this country, and manipulated both the bible and the Church as justification for their invective, and that's why you see people like myself and Melon (and a whole bunch of straight people) get up in arms about Conservative Republicans.
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Old 06-07-2005, 04:58 PM   #62
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Originally posted by Irvine511
one componant of a Conservative Republican identity is the belief that the government must be used to regulate and control personal behavior.
Heh...you know what I find amusing about the government feeling a need to do that? Our government has a hard time getting itself together. So the absolute last thing I'd want is for them to be controlling my personal life.

And that goes for a president of either side. Until those guys on Capitol Hill get their problems worked out, leave my private life the hell alone.

Angela
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Old 06-07-2005, 06:25 PM   #63
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Originally posted by Irvine511




yes. you've been working under a misformulation of the terms of argument. i was encouraging you to get your terms in order so that a proper comparison can be made. conservative republican politicians can damage that gay man on the pride float in ways that that gay man on a pride float could never damage a conservative republican politician.
Irvine, you are the one's who been arguing under a "misformulation of the terms of the argument". There is no comparison in my argument at all. I brought up the gay pride parade solely as response to melon saying that he shopuld protest at Christian events because f***** Christians protest gay events. I said that when Christians start throwing parades in which they act like gays do at gay pride parades, I'll stand by his side protesting with him.

Where do you get anything about comparison teher?
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Old 06-07-2005, 06:52 PM   #64
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I said that when Christians start throwing parades in which they act like gays do at gay pride parades, I'll stand by his side protesting with him.
How exactly do "gays act"?

I have seen gay pride parades and your comment is really very stereotypical.
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Old 06-07-2005, 07:09 PM   #65
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Dread,

I haven't read everything he's written but that wasn't mentioned in that book. Most Episcopalians (I know) do believe in the divinity of Christ though many Unitarians do not. He is an Episcopalian Bishop. I still like many of his theories, nobody's perfect.
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Old 06-07-2005, 07:16 PM   #66
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Oh yeah, Irvine, I forgot that all conservative Republicans fan the flames of hatred against gays. I'll try to remember that from now on.

The average "conservative Republicans" isn't even in congress, Irvine. Do you really how many conservative Republicans there are in the US, as opposed to how many actually serve political office of any kind at all? And yet, you state the average conservative Republican has the power to strip gays of their rights.


this was the post i was responding to -- here, you can see your misunderstanding of what we were talking about when we spoke of "Conservative Republicans." i was speaking about the politicians themselves, and how they shape and form that identity. you tried to protest this by claiming that since we don't know every last Conservative Republican personally, we can't possibly say that they are anti-gay.

being a Conservative Republican is inextricably tied into believing that homosexuality is not a choice, that it is immoral, and that while we shouldn't hate homosexuals, they should go back into the closet. i didn't make this stance up, DeLay, Santorum, Henry Hyde, and George Bush have. the Republican party has seized on this issue and placed it at the core of their party's social/domestic platform. you might not agree with what they are doing, but that means you deviate from what it means to be a Conservative Republican. which is fine to do, but this would be an example of being different from a Conservative Republican, not that all Conservative Republicans are different. if they were all different, on a macro level -- and we can easily label being anti-gay a macro issue, since it basically gave them the White House -- then you wouldn't have a political identity.

you'd have Democrats.

on a side note, this is what i think is wrong with the Left. it's all about, "how is the party addressing my specific, individual needs?!?!?!" i admire how Republicans are able to place their differences aside (i.e., John McCain) and present something of a united front to the American people. you may not like them, but you at least know who they are. and one thing they are is anti-gay.
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Old 06-07-2005, 07:18 PM   #67
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How exactly do "gays act"?

I have seen gay pride parades and your comment is really very stereotypical.

Dread: have you never seen the "Handbook to the Gay Lifestyle"? it's what we get from Gay HQ when we choose to be gay. it's essentially filled with a step-by-step guide to the gay lifestyle, complete with listings of leather shops and tips for recruiting your friends and neighbors into the gay lifestyle. and GLSEN passes them out to first graders.
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Old 06-07-2005, 07:21 PM   #68
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Originally posted by Irvine511
Dread: have you never seen the "Handbook to the Gay Lifestyle"? it's what we get from Gay HQ when we choose to be gay. it's essentially filled with a step-by-step guide to the gay lifestyle, complete with listings of leather shops and tips for recruiting your friends and neighbors into the gay lifestyle. and GLSEN passes them out to first graders.
That is just SO typical of the gay agenda!! This is all the stuff that Pat Robertson's being warning us about for years!!

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Old 06-07-2005, 08:28 PM   #69
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"Anti-choice" is such a ridiculous, stupid term. These people are anti-abortion, not anti-choice.

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Old 06-07-2005, 08:54 PM   #70
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"Anti-choice" is such a ridiculous, stupid term. These people are anti-abortion, not anti-choice.
No, it's quite accurate. It's all about them making choices about my reproductive system.


But if you want to go there, this thread will most likely end up closed, and quickly. Notice the rest of us oldbies have avoided this issue here like the plague. There's a good reason for that.
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Old 06-07-2005, 08:55 PM   #71
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But if you want to go there, this thread will most likely end up closed, and quickly. Notice the rest of us oldbies have avoided this issue here like the plague. There's a good reason for that.
In fairness, there have been some almost rational debates on the issue here. But you're dead right about it not being the issue to bring up in this thread.
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Old 06-07-2005, 08:56 PM   #72
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recruiting
Oh wow. I was just thinking today that this was a term I hadn't heard in a while. And "special rights."

:flashback:
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Old 06-07-2005, 10:13 PM   #73
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No, it's quite accurate. It's all about them making choices about my reproductive system.

Absolutely. I may never choose to have an abortion, but I danm well want the right to make that choice instead of having anyone else make it for me. And I feel that there are times when abortion is absolutely a very good thing.
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Old 06-08-2005, 12:36 AM   #74
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Originally posted by Dreadsox


How exactly do "gays act"?

I have seen gay pride parades and your comment is really very stereotypical.
dreadsox, read my post earlier and you will see that I am referring to lewd behavior, including the simulation of s & m.

Nowhere did I say that every gay acts that way at gay pride parades. However, if you think it does not happen at gay pride parades, you're wrong.Melon himself said he doesn't like what goes on at gay pride parades, and Irvine didn't deny that it happens.

But I don't know why I should even care if people think I'm stereotyping at all. Where is your concern with people stereotyping against Christians and Conservatives? Jiminy cricket, that goes on every 3rd or 4th post in these forums, and it hardly ever gets called for what it is by anyone but me.

Dadgum.
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Old 06-08-2005, 12:39 AM   #75
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And I feel that there are times when abortion is absolutely a very good thing.
That view makes me want to vomit.
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