THEOCRACY WATCH!!! Texas Gov signs anti-gay, anti-choice legislation in church

[80sU2isBest]

My biggest pet peeve is how a lot of Christians lump homosexuality and abortion in the same breath. It infuriates me beyond no end. I see them as two very distinct concepts that have nothing to do with each other. And fucking Texas Gov. Perry just keeps on feeding that stereotype. That's what infuriates me the most about this entire article.
Melon

They are of course two very distinct concepts, and I don't see how anyone can think otherwise. I don't even see any possible links.

That being said, I don't personally know any Christian, or anyone at all, that lumps abortion and homosexuality together.

 

[80sU2isBest]

Abortion is my big issue. The #1 reason for my alignment with the Republicans is that, by and large, the Republicans are the "pro-life" party. Now please, people, please take note of the words "by and large"; I know that there are prochoice Republicans and prolife Democrats.

 

[OneBadStay]

It's not accurate.

"Anti-Choice" is a derogatory term for pro-lifers. It's considered offensive for two reasons:

1) It assumes that choice is the only important value at stake in the abortion debate, and automatically casts anyone who disagrees with this assumption in a negative light.

2) It implies that people who oppose abortion are generally opposed to women having choices in their lives, which is a popular but utterly false smear. The absurdity becomes obvious when one considers why we do not call people who are opposed to theft or assault "anti-choice".

 

[XHendrix24]

I just read the Amazon reviews of the book, and I see that what he does is link the legalization of abortion to a drope in the crim rate.

Well, I don't need to read the book to realize that if a fetus is a living human lives, as I believe it is, then the "crime rate" point he's trying to make is moot, as murder of innocent human lives is a crime.

Very true.

 

[indra]

It's not accurate.

"Anti-Choice" is a derogatory term for pro-lifers. It's considered offensive for two reasons:

1) It assumes that choice is the only important value at stake in the abortion debate, and automatically casts anyone who disagrees with this assumption in a negative light.

2) It implies that people who oppose abortion are generally opposed to women having choices in their lives, which is a popular but utterly false smear. The absurdity becomes obvious when one considers why we do not call people who are opposed to theft or assault "anti-choice".

The terms Pro and Anti choice are used almost exclusively in the abortion debate. Pro-Choice is a shortening of "Pro-Choice = The right for each and every woman to decide for herself whether or not to have an abortion" and Anti-Chioce is a shortening of "Anti-Choice = no woman should have the right to decide for herself whether or not to have an abortion." Neither term, as used in the abortion debate, has anything to do with "any other decisions.

If you wish to discuss a disingenuous term however, pro-abortion comes to mind. To call someone pro-abortion implies he/she encourages abortions. For instance, I am very strongly pro-choice, but I don't give a rats ass if anyone else has or does not have an abortion, whatever their situation. However, I want them (and me) to have the right to make the decision for themselves.

 

[XHendrix24]

The terms Pro and Anti choice are used almost exclusively in the abortion debate. Pro-Choice is a shortening of "Pro-Choice = The right for each and every woman to decide for herself whether or not to have an abortion" and Anti-Chioce is a shortening of "Anti-Choice = no woman should have the right to decide for herself whether or not to have an abortion." Neither term, as used in the abortion debate, has anything to do with "any other decisions.

If you wish to discuss a disingenuous term however, pro-abortion comes to mind. To call someone pro-abortion implies he/she encourages abortions. For instance, I am very strongly pro-choice, but I don't give a rats ass if anyone else has or does not have an abortion, whatever their situation. However, I want them (and me) to have the right to make the decision for themselves.

...So, you wouldn't be offended if someone categorized your stance as "Anti-Life"?

 

[BVS]

...So, you wouldn't be offended if someone categorized your stance as "Anti-Life"?

Might as well close the thread now if it's going to turn into this old argument again.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Staying out of the abortion debate, because I've tired myself out discussing that issue, and just going to comment on this:

"Texans have made a decision about marriage and if there is some other state that has a more lenient view than Texas then maybe that's a better place for them (gay and lesbian families) to live." - Texas governor, Rick Perry, last Sunday.

http://www.nbc5i.com/news/4572168/detail.html

Nice. Really nice .

It's truly amazing the amount of immaturity some people in this world possess.

Angela

 

[anitram]

...So, you wouldn't be offended if someone categorized your stance as "Anti-Life"?

Ooooh! Abortion debate on FYM.

GOODY!

 

[XHendrix24]

Might as well close the thread now if it's going to turn into this old argument again.

Nono, I'm not intending to start any argument. I've seen and participated in plenty of arguments on the issue. I'm just honestly curious if Pro-Choice people that call Pro-Life people "Anti-Choice" would mind being called "Anti-Life." It's the exact thing they do, just turned around.

If it'll help avoid conflict, a yes/no answer would suffice.

 

[OneBadStay]

indra -

I'll say it again, since the first time apparently wasn't loud enough.

"Anti-Choice" is a derogatory term for pro-lifers. It's considered offensive.

If I tell someone I don't like to be called "anti-choice," but he or she essentially says, "I don't care" and continues to call me that anyway, do you know what that makes him or her?

Intolerant.

 

[echo0001]

I'll tell you what - I am VERY disappointed in Bush and most of the other Republicans these days...but probably not for the reasons most of you are.

And what are you're reasons? Just curious.

You may have stated them in some other thread, I may have missed them, so many threads...

 

[80sU2isBest]

indra -

I'll say it again, since the first time apparently wasn't loud enough.

"Anti-Choice" is a derogatory term for pro-lifers. It's considered offensive.

If I tell someone I don't like to be called "anti-choice," but he or she essentially says, "I don't care" and continues to call me that anyway, do you know what that makes him or her?

Intolerant.

Exactly right.

The term "anti-choice" makes me want to vomit.

 

[80sU2isBest]

And what are you're reasons? Just curious.

You may have stated them in some other thread, I may have missed them, so many threads...

I'll tell you when I'm more in a mood to argue. It will bring out arguments, no doubt.

 

[melon]

Well, apparently, we've found the derogatory terms for both sides:

"Pro-abortion" and "Anti-choice"

I've known a few "pro-choicers" who support its legality on principle, yet in their interpersonal relationships, would never encourage an abortion, nor would have one themselves. It does happen, so when Kerry got slammed for taking a position like that, it was really too bad. I guess "nuance" these days is out of fashion, in favor of dualistic "good" vs. "evil" / "yes" or "no" answers.

Melon

 

[unosdostres14]

Yeah Melon ur right. That's because "you're either with us or against us"!! (YEEHAW!!!)

 

[deep]

Exactly right.

The term "anti-choice" makes me want to vomit.

i seen you post about vomiting before

so I got you this

 

[80sU2isBest]

i seen you post about vomiting before

so I got you this

Thank you very much!

 

[Angela Harlem]

No one likes abortion. No one is a swinging great supporter of them. Certainly not in our little forum here. Everyone is aware of the great emotional trauma one results in. We all know that they are possibly the most difficult choice a couple or woman could make. And both sides most definitely want to see less of them. If only we could all do more to remember those who eventually filter down to those who support the option (pro choice) also think this, we'd be doing better already. If we could only do more to remember that those who oppose it, do not want women to end up in dangerous situations and would rather we focus on ways of simply not needing them, then we'd again be doing better.

 

[martha]

"Anti-Choice" is a derogatory term for pro-lifers. It's considered offensive.

You know what I find offensive? That somehow you're the one who decides what happens to me when I'm pregnant. That's offensive.

 

[martha]

Nono, I'm not intending to start any argument. I've seen and participated in plenty of arguments on the issue. I'm just honestly curious if Pro-Choice people that call Pro-Life people "Anti-Choice" would mind being called "Anti-Life." It's the exact thing they do, just turned around.

If it'll help avoid conflict, a yes/no answer would suffice.

Pro-choice people are not "anti-life." On the contrary, we tend to put living, breathing women first, rather than treat them as merely vessels that are intending for breeding.

 

[MissMoo]

80's, I can't remember if you are pro death penalty? Because the author of the book I sited is making the point that most abortions are given to poor women who cannot afford a child, and that those children are the most likely to grow up and commit crimes. He is very good at going through the possible reasons for the crime drop, but the point is, if those children had not been aborted they would have killed others (which you are against right?) and that you (if you are pro death penalty) would have killed them in turn. You should check out the book because the author actually does have a stance on abortion. He is interested in why certain things occur (like why most drug dealers live with their mothers). That doesn't mean that the whole question wouldn't been different if we all had equal opportunities. If you want to change abortion, you really need to change society.

 

[MissMoo]

Okay, I can't write: It's cited.

And I meant that the author does not have a stance about abortion.

 

[unosdostres14]

....being pro-life and pro-death penalty aren't contradicting, right?? Being pro-states rights and then wanting a Constitutional amendment banning gay marriage aren't contradicting, right?

 

[80sU2isBest]

80's, I can't remember if you are pro death penalty? Because the author of the book I sited is making the point that most abortions are given to poor women who cannot afford a child, and that those children are the most likely to grow up and commit crimes. He is very good at going through the possible reasons for the crime drop, but the point is, if those children had not been aborted they would have killed others (which you are against right?) and that you (if you are pro death penalty) would have killed them in turn. You should check out the book because the author actually does have a stance on abortion. He is interested in why certain things occur (like why most drug dealers live with their mothers). That doesn't mean that the whole question wouldn't been different if we all had equal opportunities. If you want to change abortion, you really need to change society.

Actually, I am against the death penalty, but only because I know that innocent people do get executed. Death penalty and abortion are 2 separate issues.

I agree that the attitude of society needs to change in order to make abortion non-existent. However, in the meantime, I believe in the need to make abortion illegal; since I believe abortion is murder, I don't think the government shouyld be condoning murder.

 

[80sU2isBest]

....being pro-life and pro-death penalty aren't contradicting, right?

Well, I'm prolife and anti-death penalty, but no I do not think that prolifers who are pro death penalty are being contradictory.

If a fetus is a living human being, then abortion is murder of innocents.

The death penalty, however, is intended as a punishment against people who have been convicted of heinous crimes. It is also a way of protecting society from the possibility of a heinous murderer escaping from prison and killing again.

If people were never wrongly convicted, and never wrongly executed, I would support the death penalty. However, wrongful executions do occur, and so I cannot support it, because in those cases, it is indeed murder.

 

[starsgoblue]

So we should kill people who have been proven to kill other people to show other people that killing is wrong?



Ack, this stuff is so confusing....*runs and hides*

 

[financeguy]

....being pro-life and pro-death penalty aren't contradicting, right??

I am "pro-life" except in limited circumstances.

I am also "pro-death penalty" - again, in limited circumstances.

I am also agnostic, bordering on atheist.

Go figure!

 

[martha]

I am "pro-life" except in limited circumstances.

This is always the fun one. The guy who gets to decide that some women can make their own choices, but only the women who meet his criteria.

 

[financeguy]

This is always the fun one. The guy who gets to decide that some women can make their own choices, but only the women who meet his criteria.

Nope. The "guy" doesn't get to decide. Society gets to decide.