THEOCRACY WATCH!!! Texas Gov signs anti-gay, anti-choice legislation in church - Page 17 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-13-2005, 05:49 PM   #241
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,473
Local Time: 08:13 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy


Abortion is also a highly controversial issue in Ireland, and still illegal except in (very) restricted circumstances. I don't know about Italy and Spain but in countries like the Philipines, also heavily Catholic, I understand that it also fairly controversial.


but is it as much of a political litmus test? i know many people who would never vote for any politician based simply on their pro-life/anti-choice vs. pro-choice positions.

does it occupy as much fiery rhetoric in Ireland as it does in the US?
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 06-13-2005, 05:52 PM   #242
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 02:13 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
but is it as much of a political litmus test? i know many people who would never vote for any politician based simply on their pro-life/anti-choice vs. pro-choice positions.

does it occupy as much fiery rhetoric in Ireland as it does in the US?
In recent years, probably not. It was much more divisive in the 1980s and early 1990s. We never had shootings or anything like that thankfully. (edited to add: shootings related to the abortion issue, I mean) But then, as I said, abortion is still highly restricted.

There certainly would be people who would not vote for a politician purely because of their abortion position, but it is hard to say how many. Probably mainly older people and traditionalist Catholics.
__________________

__________________
financeguy is offline  
Old 06-13-2005, 06:08 PM   #243
Jesus Online
 
Angela Harlem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: a glass castle
Posts: 30,163
Local Time: 12:13 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest

I am not advocating that 13 and 14 years old, or any irresponsible people raise children. They can put the babies up for adoption, can't they? When I said "when a child is conceived, it's time for the mom and dad to step forward and do right by the baby", sometimes the "right thing" is to give the child to people who will be able to raise it.
It really bothers me how often this is put forward as an entirely neat solution to everything. Really bothers me.

Who is going to decide on the adoption? Society/government, or the couple/mother? If abortion is banned, will we need to enforce stricter nudging toward adoption as the only real viable option? Are you people reading what you are saying here?? Recall the 60s if you will please. Remember the bastards in the Catholic Church who took babies away from mothers, regardless of whether the mother approved or not? You might reply 'this is not what I meant. it has to be done with full consent by the mother.' Of course it needs fucking consent. For THIS reason, lets stop suggesting it happen. Women who wish to put their babies up for adoption will do so. Lets not bring it into the abportion debate. Outlawing abortion is NOT going to increase the numbers in any great way, of adoptions. It is utterly naive to think it will. It is swapping one horrible option for another by leaving women with only the option of keeping a baby they cannot or do not want to raise or handing it over, so easy. Wipe hands. Neat, huh. And I am not saying that adoption is horrible. It is an incredibly wonderful thing for couples who cannot have children, but so unimaginably heartwrenching for the mother.
__________________
<a href=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/angelaharlem/thPaul_Roos28.jpg target=_blank>http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...aul_Roos28.jpg</a>
Angela Harlem is offline  
Old 06-13-2005, 06:11 PM   #244
ONE
love, blood, life
 
indra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 12,689
Local Time: 09:13 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511


i have a question:

why is abortion almost a uniquely American source of near-hysteria on both sides of the political spectrum? it seems like much less of an issue in other countries, even in heavily Catholic countries like Italy or Spain. what makes the US different? is there something about responsibility (or perceived responsibility) and shame and moral outrage that gets tied into this issue, along with that dirty dirty thing we call sex, that is somehow uniquely American?
The US (as opposed to the rest of the Americas, which don't seem similarly infected) does seem to have a strong sanctimonious streak. I think a lot of that has to do with the people who left europe to come here. Most of the early settlers were looking for religious freedom (which was more available), so you would think that the people who came were all looking for more tolerance, but a sizable number came because here they could set up communities that were more restrictive religiously/socially (Puritans) than what they left.

So the promise of religious freedom/tolerance brought out whole groups of very restrictive, intolerant people because they were allowed to be restrictive and intolerant here.
__________________
indra is offline  
Old 06-13-2005, 06:16 PM   #245
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 05:13 PM
You're right, some societies are "intolerant" about killing.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 06-13-2005, 06:17 PM   #246
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 02:13 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
what you are saying here?? Recall the 60s if you will please. Remember the bastards in the Catholic Church who took babies away from mothers, regardless of whether the mother approved or not?
One would wonder if all of these "bastards in the Catholic Church" as you call them were acting with the approval/connivance of the State?
__________________
financeguy is offline  
Old 06-13-2005, 06:20 PM   #247
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 02:13 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by indra
The US (as opposed to the rest of the Americas, which don't seem similarly infected) does seem to have a strong sanctimonious streak.
I would be reasonably confident in saying that in many South American countries abortion is more restricted than in the US.
__________________
financeguy is offline  
Old 06-13-2005, 06:21 PM   #248
Jesus Online
 
Angela Harlem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: a glass castle
Posts: 30,163
Local Time: 12:13 PM
Cahoots? Undoubtedly. Infact, medical records were conveniently destroyed, sorry misplaced so that later, women couldn't even find where their babies had gone. Dont get me wrong though. I mean no offence to people of Roman Catholic faith, but the leaders of your church once deemed it entirely fit to steal babies and force adoption. The state turned a blind eye.
__________________
<a href=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/angelaharlem/thPaul_Roos28.jpg target=_blank>http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...aul_Roos28.jpg</a>
Angela Harlem is offline  
Old 06-13-2005, 06:23 PM   #249
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 02:13 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
I mean no offence to people of Roman Catholic faith, but the leaders of your church once deemed it entirely fit to steal babies and force adoption.
Don't worry, I am agnostic. I do not take my orders from the Vatican.
__________________
financeguy is offline  
Old 06-13-2005, 06:23 PM   #250
Refugee
 
Infinity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,188
Local Time: 06:13 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem


It really bothers me how often this is put forward as an entirely neat solution to everything. Really bothers me.

Who is going to decide on the adoption? Society/government, or the couple/mother? If abortion is banned, will we need to enforce stricter nudging toward adoption as the only real viable option? Are you people reading what you are saying here?? Recall the 60s if you will please. Remember the bastards in the Catholic Church who took babies away from mothers, regardless of whether the mother approved or not? You might reply 'this is not what I meant. it has to be done with full consent by the mother.' Of course it needs fucking consent. For THIS reason, lets stop suggesting it happen. Women who wish to put their babies up for adoption will do so. Lets not bring it into the abportion debate. Outlawing abortion is NOT going to increase the numbers in any great way, of adoptions. It is utterly naive to think it will. It is swapping one horrible option for another by leaving women with only the option of keeping a baby they cannot or do not want to raise or handing it over, so easy. Wipe hands. Neat, huh. And I am not saying that adoption is horrible. It is an incredibly wonderful thing for couples who cannot have children, but so unimaginably heartwrenching for the mother.
Nobody wants to end abortion to increase adoption. People want to end abortion because it is murder. Pro-lifers don't see an increase in the number of adoptions as a success against abortion. We see a decrease in the number of abortions as a success against abortion.
__________________
Infinity is offline  
Old 06-13-2005, 06:28 PM   #251
Jesus Online
 
Angela Harlem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: a glass castle
Posts: 30,163
Local Time: 12:13 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Infinitum98


Nobody wants to end abortion to increase adoption. People want to end abortion because it is murder. Pro-lifers don't see an increase in the number of adoptions as a success against abortion. We see a decrease in the number of abortions as a success against abortion.
I did not say people wish to end abortion by increasing adoption. The nuance is that increeasing adoption can somehow lessen abortion. After all, a baby surviving an abortion, can be adopted out, right? This is my problem. I hope you can read the sarcasm.

With your last sentence, if that is how you truly feel, then for crying out loud, please let your side cease with the adoption angle. It is moot.
__________________
<a href=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/angelaharlem/thPaul_Roos28.jpg target=_blank>http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...aul_Roos28.jpg</a>
Angela Harlem is offline  
Old 06-13-2005, 06:37 PM   #252
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
BonosSaint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,566
Local Time: 09:13 PM
Does anybody think this debate is going to go any differently than it has in a million and one threads or is that a moot point?
(Sorry, this definition of moot has become common usage. Language evolves or devolves all the time.)
__________________
BonosSaint is offline  
Old 06-13-2005, 06:40 PM   #253
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 02:13 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonosSaint
Does anybody think this debate is going to go any differently than it has in a million and one threads or is that a moot point?
(Sorry, this definition of moot has become common usage. Language evolves or devolves all the time.)

Your point is, uhm, 'moot'.
__________________
financeguy is offline  
Old 06-13-2005, 06:41 PM   #254
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
BonosSaint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,566
Local Time: 09:13 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy



Your point is, uhm, 'moot'.
__________________
BonosSaint is offline  
Old 06-13-2005, 06:49 PM   #255
Jesus Online
 
Angela Harlem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: a glass castle
Posts: 30,163
Local Time: 12:13 PM
The use of the word moot in my above post was absolutely correct!
__________________

__________________
<a href=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/angelaharlem/thPaul_Roos28.jpg target=_blank>http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...aul_Roos28.jpg</a>
Angela Harlem is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com