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Old 06-09-2005, 05:55 PM   #166
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The argument in favour of widespread availability of abortion purely on grounds of financial hardship in extremely wealthy Western economies such as the US, Britain, Denmark, etc, I find really weak. I would assume that almost everyone gets an education and receives sex education, yes?

The solution is perhaps better education and birth control but I don't buy for a moment the idea that we have to have abortion on demand to somehow protect babies from being brought up in a life of "poverty". Hey guess what, maybe they'd prefer a life of "poverty" in the US or other very wealthy countries to no life at all.

And before anyone says the US or other similar Western countries aren't very wealthy, well frankly they are, at least relatively, as any table of poverty or international development will confirm.
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Old 06-09-2005, 05:56 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
There is a distinction between a human life and a potential human life.
Absolutely but I guess it boils down to at what stage human life is deemed to have commenced.
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Old 06-09-2005, 06:03 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally posted by Infinitum98


Yes it does feel. In the abortion video, you can see it trying to get out of the way of the instruments. There are also pictures in which fetuses that are less then a month old suck their thumbs. Now I don't know the exact age at which a fetus can feel. But I think it is around 2 weeks of age.

And if you don't want to live with a machine, fine for you. But you can't choose whether other people on machines want to live or die.
Well now I can't take anything you post seriously because you're full of shit. Lay off the propaganda and read some science books.

A six week old fetus isn't much larger than a grain of rice. A heartbeat doesn't start till the second month and thumbsucking will start around 5 months.
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Old 06-09-2005, 06:03 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally posted by Infinitum98


There are also pictures in which fetuses that are less then a month old suck their thumbs.
At one month there is an embryo, not a fetus. At one month there are no developed fingers to suck. At 8 weeks it becomes a fetus.
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Old 06-09-2005, 06:16 PM   #170
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

No I'm saying it's not human yet.

Then why, when I said "A fetus is a distinct and separate human being that shares a womb with you", did you say "yes"?

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
For the record, I personally don't believe in abortion but realize it needs to be legal ...
Maybe you'll be able to answer this question, that last time I asked it, only one person even attempted to answer:

Why do you "personally not believe in abortion" if it's not a human life being murdered?

And if it is a human life being murdered, why do you think it should be legal?
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Old 06-09-2005, 06:27 PM   #171
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From the American Pregnancy Organization:

http://www.americanpregnancy.org/unp...elopment1.html

Week 3 - Gestational Age (Fetal Age - Week 1):
The embryo is going through lots of basic growth at this time, with the beginning development of the brain, spinal cord, heart and gastrointestinal tract.

Week 4 & 5 - Gestational Age (Fetal Age - Weeks 2 & 3):
Arm and leg buds are visible, but not clearly distinguishable. The heart is now beating at a steady rhythm. The placenta has begun to form and is producing some important hormones including hCG. There is movement of rudimentary blood through the main vessels. The early structures that will become the eyes and ears are forming. The embryo is ¼ inch long by the end of these weeks.

Week 6 - Gestational Age (Fetal Age - Week 4):
The formation of the lungs, jaw, nose and palate begin now. The hand and feet buds have webbed looking structures that will become the fingers and toes. The brain is continuing to form into its complex parts. A vaginal ultrasound could detect an audible heartbeat at this time. The embryo is about a ½ inch in length.

Week 7 - Gestational Age (Fetal Age - Week 5):
At 7 weeks gestation, every essential organ has begun to form in the embryo’s tiny body even though it still weighs less than an aspirin. The hair and nipple follicles are forming, and the eyelids and tongue have begun formation. The elbows and toes are more visible as the trunk begins to straighten out.

Week 8 - Gestational Age (Fetal Age - Week 6):
The ears are continuing to form externally and internally. Everything that is present in an adult human is now present in the small embryo. The bones are beginning to form and the muscles can contract. The facial features continue to mature and the eyelids are now more developed. The embryo is at the end of the embryonic period and begins the fetal period. The embryo is about 1 inch long and is the size of a bean.
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Old 06-10-2005, 04:26 AM   #172
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Then why, when I said "A fetus is a distinct and separate human being that shares a womb with you", did you say "yes"?
I was answering a complex statement with an easy answer.


Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest

Maybe you'll be able to answer this question, that last time I asked it, only one person even attempted to answer:

Why do you "personally not believe in abortion" if it's not a human life being murdered?

And if it is a human life being murdered, why do you think it should be legal?
Because it's a potential life. I believe in bringing children into this life if they will have a home.
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Old 06-10-2005, 03:18 PM   #173
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Sorry boys, but it's my body.

None of your scary videos, righteous indignation, odd comparisons, or "compassion" for the "unborn" take away my right to determine my own reproductive matters.

If you men don't want women to abort an unwanted pregnancy, what you need to support then is all the programs out there that provide effective birth control and education for women and girls. Just babbling on about the "horror of abortion on demand" isn't enough. With education and access to effective and safe birth control, we'll both be happy. Unfortunately, I only see the support of this from the pro-choice community. The anti-choice community would rather spend its time scaring the shit out of people and blockading clinics that provide women access to safe and effective health care and family planning.

So, in conclusion, put up or shut up. Make birth control and education easy to get and easy to use and then you'll see fewer abortions.

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Old 06-10-2005, 03:43 PM   #174
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The other thing is make birth control covered by prescription insurance and drop viagra.

My son was born at 28 weeks. He weighed 2lbs 6 oz and was int he hospital for 9 weeks. He was a baby, an embryo is a parasite who's survival depends on its host. As a Christian I do not believe life starts until birth.

Almost 1/2 of all pregnancies are spontaneously aborted according to statistics. I do believe in the mantra few and rare, but that won't change as long as self-righteous MEN make the funding decisions.

IMO prolifers care about the fetus but often feel disdain for the child. Ask any protestor at Planned Parenthood how many unwanted kids they adopted and your met with a blank stare.
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Old 06-10-2005, 03:55 PM   #175
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scarletwine


The other thing is make birth control covered by prescription insurance and drop viagra.
Hey, these days you're lucky if the morally righteous pharmacist is willing to even dispense it to you at all.
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Old 06-10-2005, 04:05 PM   #176
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*Applauds martha's post* Nicely said .

Angela
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Old 06-11-2005, 09:29 AM   #177
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Quote:
Originally posted by martha



You know what I find offensive? That somehow you're the one who decides what happens to me when I'm pregnant. That's offensive.
Wow, you have trouble staying on topic, huh?
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Old 06-11-2005, 09:37 AM   #178
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Originally posted by martha


This is you deciding what happens to my body.

Hey martha, to some people, the issue also involves another, separate body with different DNA. The idea that pro-lifers are all about "telling women what they can and can't do with their bodies" is so misinformed, innacurate, and intolerant, I can't even believe so many people hold to it. The preborn baby is NOT a part of the woman's body. That's scientific fact you're up against now.

And besides, are you aware that there are many already existing laws that say what a woman can and can't do with her body? A woman can't use her body to smuggle illegal narcotics into this country. A woman can't fill her body with an excess of alcohol and get behind the wheel of a car. In almost every state, a woman is not allowed to rent her body out to men who want sex.

So, you see, there is a legal precedent for prohibiting women from doing certain things with and to their bodies.


Quote:
Originally posted by martha


Sorry boys, but it's my body.

Sorry, martha, no it's not. A simple DNA test will clear that mistake up for you.
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Old 06-11-2005, 09:47 AM   #179
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scarletwine


He was a baby, an embryo is a parasite who's survival depends on its host.
Leave your baby unattended for about a week or so, and see how well he can fend for himself.

Of course you wouldn't do that, because you know your baby is no less "parasitic" than an embryo.

And let's not even bring up people who are connected to life support systems or any type of breathing or feeding apparatus. I suppose those "parasites" are equally expendable because they depend on a "host" for survival?
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Old 06-11-2005, 10:13 AM   #180
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scarletwine


IMO prolifers care about the fetus but often feel disdain for the child. Ask any protestor at Planned Parenthood how many unwanted kids they adopted and your met with a blank stare.
You make a wild accustaion that most prolifers feel disdain for babies and then back it up with something that is absolutely no indicator of such disdain at all. Has it occurred to you that maybe that there are a myriad of reasons that these protestors hadn't dopted? Here, I'll list them for you:

1)They have children of their own
2)They can't afford a child
3)They aren't married, and are of the opinion that a child needs a mom and a dad
4)They just don't want children

None of those equal "disdain".
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