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Old 06-09-2005, 05:15 PM   #151
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There is a distinction between a human life and a potential human life.
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Old 06-09-2005, 05:19 PM   #152
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Martha, if you were joined at the hip with a Siamese twin, would you ahve the right to kill your twin? If you say no, I ask "Why not? It's your body."
No it's your twins, you just share some bits.
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Old 06-09-2005, 05:20 PM   #153
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There is a distinction between a human life and a potential human life.


Yes, this is what I was going to say earlier.

Damnitt, I got sucked in.

Now I'm out.
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Old 06-09-2005, 05:21 PM   #154
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
There is a distinction between a human life and a potential human life.
Hmmm...so potential human lives suck their thumbs? How does that work?
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Old 06-09-2005, 05:22 PM   #155
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


No it's your twins, you just share some bits.
A fetus is a dictinct and separate human being that shares a womb with you.
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Old 06-09-2005, 05:26 PM   #156
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Hmmm...so potential human lives suck their thumbs? How does that work?
Now you're making a distinction between trimesters.

We can all agree that a fetus brought out of the womb at a month won't be able to survive on it's own(is it really a human life), and a fetus at 7 months has a chance.
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Old 06-09-2005, 05:27 PM   #157
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A fetus is a dictinct and separate human being that shares a womb with you.
Yes, so it's apples and oranges.
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Old 06-09-2005, 05:31 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Now you're making a distinction between trimesters.

We can all agree that a fetus brought out of the womb at a month won't be able to survive on it's own(is it really a human life), and a fetus at 7 months has a chance.
Even though it can't survive on it's own it can still feel horrendous pain, there have been abortion videos in which you can see the baby struggling to live while it goes through an abortion.

How about people who must live with an artificial heart, or have to live plugged to machines in hospitals. These people can't live on their own, so it is okay to kill them?
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Old 06-09-2005, 05:37 PM   #159
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Yes, so it's apples and oranges.
The part that's the same is that both the fetus and the siamese twins are separate dictinct human beings to you. You admitted that yourself. So why should anyone have the right to kill a separate distinct human being?
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Old 06-09-2005, 05:39 PM   #160
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Even though it can't survive on it's own it can still feel horrendous pain, there have been abortion videos in which you can see the baby struggling to live while it goes through an abortion.

How about people who must live with an artificial heart, or have to live plugged to machines in hospitals. These people can't live on their own, so it is okay to kill them?
Exactly. Even babies that are out of the womb can't survive on their own. They need someone to feed them, to give them shelter. The "can't survive on their own" argument doesn't hold water, in my opinion.
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Old 06-09-2005, 05:41 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Now you're making a distinction between trimesters.

We can all agree that a fetus brought out of the womb at a month won't be able to survive on it's own(is it really a human life), and a fetus at 7 months has a chance.
So it's okay to kill a human being as long as it can't survive on it's own? Is that the criteria?

Have you ever looked at an in-depth fetal development chart? If not, give it a go. You might be surprised at the things fetuses do at very very early stages of development.
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Old 06-09-2005, 05:42 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally posted by Infinitum98


Even though it can't survive on it's own it can still feel horrendous pain, there have been abortion videos in which you can see the baby struggling to live while it goes through an abortion.

How about people who must live with an artificial heart, or have to live plugged to machines in hospitals. These people can't live on their own, so it is okay to kill them?
No one knows that a fetus of a month feels anything!!!

If I need a machine to live then don't bother let me die. But really these examples are moot.
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Old 06-09-2005, 05:44 PM   #163
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Exactly. Even babies that are out of the womb can't survive on their own. They need someone to feed them, to give them shelter. The "can't survive on their own" argument doesn't hold water, in my opinion.
You know what I mean. A month old fetus out of a womb, give the fetus whatever you want it won't survive for it's not life yet.
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Old 06-09-2005, 05:50 PM   #164
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


So it's okay to kill a human being as long as it can't survive on it's own? Is that the criteria?
No I'm saying it's not human yet.
Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest

Have you ever looked at an in-depth fetal development chart? If not, give it a go. You might be surprised at the things fetuses do at very very early stages of development.
Yes I have.

For the record, I personally don't believe in abortion but realize it needs to be legal for health reasons, the lack of sex education, and the quality of life lived by many who were unwanted but for some reason their parents decided to keep them. I really don't see it as a black and white issue and think that both sides need to get together and work out solutions where less unwanted pregnacies occur and the quality of life of our children is raised. Until then I don't see abortion ever becoming illegal.
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Old 06-09-2005, 05:53 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


No one knows that a fetus of a month feels anything!!!

If I need a machine to live then don't bother let me die. But really these examples are moot.
Yes it does feel. In the abortion video, you can see it trying to get out of the way of the instruments. There are also pictures in which fetuses that are less then a month old suck their thumbs. Now I don't know the exact age at which a fetus can feel. But I think it is around 2 weeks of age.

And if you don't want to live with a machine, fine for you. But you can't choose whether other people on machines want to live or die.
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