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Old 10-15-2005, 10:44 PM   #16
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Originally posted by Irvine511
is anyone else bothered by the use of the world "bitch" to describe a female politician?

(no matter how awful she may or may not have been)
Yes. But I figured maybe the nuances I heard in it weren't there for anyone else.

To me "bitch" connotes (among other, less troubling things) willing someone's sexual humiliation, especially when you have a metaphorical circle of people saying it at once.

But probably for some it is merely profanity, and no more or less aggressive than calling her an ass or the like.

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Old 10-15-2005, 11:14 PM   #17
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Originally posted by financeguy
I fail to see what was so hateful about Thatcher, given that she rescued the UK economy from a decade or more of moribund depression, and that she provided an example to many other countries (including my own) that enterprise wasn't something to be afraid of, that hard work wasn't something to be ashamed of, that socialism offered no solutions. These things bother me slightly, just a tad, but not the specific use of the term 'bitch' if other posters think that is appropriate.... but I disagree with them.
I'm not even talking about her economic policies, which I view as a mixed bag. I have a rather vicious opposition to sales taxes, and I think her high VAT that she set was a mistake.

But Thatcher also made sure to be extremely homophobic.

Victorian social values were idolised. Single parents and gay relationships stood accused of being the scourge of society, the cause of the crumbling social fabric.

The developing HIV epidemic was held up as the consequence of this 'immoral' behaviour. The Tory-supporting press fanned the flames of prejudice with screams of 'gay plague', provoking some ultra-right-wing Tories to openly incite gay bashing. December 1986 to November 1991 saw 70 gay men murdered.

The community had to get organised fast. Support groups and pressure groups emerged to provide services, carry out urgent education amongst the gay community and to counter the ignorance fostered by the government and media's bigotry.

But the Tories were relentless. New anti-gay laws were proposed which together represented the biggest attack on lesbian, gay and bisexual people since the 1950’s.

(The 1950s McCarthyite witch-hunts against communists and gays in the United States was paralleled in Britain by the viciously anti-gay Home Secretary Maxwell-Fyfe's 'clean-up' campaign which resulted in a five-fold increase in the number of arrests of gay men for gross indecency.)

In 1991, demonstrations took place against 'Clause 25' of the Criminal Justice bill which empowered the courts to view everyday contact between consenting gay men as serious sexual offences.

2,913 men were prosecuted for 'indecency' between men between 1990 and 1992. The sentiments of an Early Day Motion put down by Tory MP Harry Greenway to ban lesbians and gay men from fostering and adoption, were picked up by the junior health minister Virginia Bottomley. Her new government guidelines on the 1989 Children Act aimed at the same target but were defeated by the vigorous campaign against 'Paragraph 16'.

A further spur to the gay community came as the Tories prepared to hide an unprecedented attack on local government funding and services behind the smokescreen of Section 28.

40,000 marched against Section 28 in 1988. That summer, 60,000 marched on Gay Pride day - marches in preceding years had never topped more than a few thousand. Since then, Pride demonstrations have increased in number each year.
This is why Margaret Thatcher is a bitch, and I hope she rots in hell. Her economic policies, while I might have philosophical disagreements with some of her approaches, have nothing to do with my opinion of her.

Just for the record, I refer to male bigots with profane names, as well. I do not believe that female politicians are inherently bad at all, but this particular person was abhorrent.


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Old 10-16-2005, 01:53 AM   #18
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Margaret Thatcher's unholy and perpetual dick sucking of Reagan, together with her appalling social policy (not to mention what damage she did to the economy) means I hope she rots in the deepest hell, together with Ronnie.
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Old 10-16-2005, 01:57 AM   #19
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Originally posted by yolland
Some say she was the original Spice Girl.

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Old 10-16-2005, 02:29 AM   #20
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Originally posted by blueeyedgirl
Margaret Thatcher's unholy and perpetual dick sucking of Reagan, together with her appalling social policy (not to mention what damage she did to the economy) means I hope she rots in the deepest hell, together with Ronnie.
Out of interest what unadulterated evil did that sinister alliance born in the deepest pits of RWDB hell yield?
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Old 10-16-2005, 04:28 AM   #21
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by financeguy

"Give me socialism any day" - oh wonderful, I suppose you would have prefered to live in the Soviet Union where millions were sent to the gulags. "Dictatorial leadership"- I think that Magaret Thatcher was democratically elected. On three separate occasions.

Thatcher was elected each time with less than 40% of the overall vote and in Scotland, as I've stated, the Tories had not one MP. Democracy??? Excuse me...I'm off to the Gulag with my Guardian...
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Old 10-16-2005, 04:53 AM   #22
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I understand entirely

If % of vote is > 40% then % of vote is < 40%

Election in 1979 had a conservative majority with 43.9%
Election in 1983 had a conservative majority of 42.4%
Election in 1987 had a conservative majority of 42.2%

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Old 10-16-2005, 09:40 AM   #23
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Originally posted by Kieran McConville
Gee no offence Finance Guy but weren't you just saying in another thread a few days ago that it's silly to equate socialism or social-democracy style policies with full on soviet communism?

And now you're doing it!

Isn't that just a bit over the freaking top????

Don't take this personally, but I couldn't not say it.

Except, Kieran, that Michael Foot, leader of the British Labour Party in the early '80s, WAS a genuine leftwinger, whereas the likes of Bill and Hills clearly aren't. Admittedly his successor Neil Kinnock was more mainstream - but still fairly leftwing, well, compared to Blair anyway.

From the Wikipedia article on Foot: -

"The 1983 Labour manifesto, strongly socialist in tone, advocated unilateral nuclear disarmament, higher personal taxation and a return to a more interventionist industrial policy. The manifesto also pledged that a Labour government would abolish the House of Lords and leave the EEC. Among the Labour MPs newly-elected in 1983 in support of this manifesto was Tony Blair. Foot's Labour Party lost to the Conservatives in a landslide. Foot resigned and was succeeded by Neil Kinnock as leader. Gerald Kaufman, once Harold Wilson's press officer and during the 1980s a key player on the Labour right, described the 1983 Labour manifesto as "the longest suicide note in history".

It should also be noted that when Foot was initially elected leader, some in the party left to set up their own centrist party the SDP.

I realise the phrase 'loony left' is frequently over-used - but in the context of UK politics in the late 70's and early 80's, there really was a loony left.
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Old 10-17-2005, 02:22 AM   #24
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So he was all those things, that's still not soviet communism.

I think my point stil stands. I know quite well where you stand on things, and that's fair enough. But still.

Yes some labour people (more so in the past) had a foot in a few different camps. Yes some of them were communists. Maybe some still are. But the idea of Britain electing a government that would practise actual soviet style communism, is laughable, and hyperbolic.
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Old 10-17-2005, 01:28 PM   #25
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Well I'm so glad my little thread generated a few feelings, both for and against her.

Personally I have much to hate her and her kind for, my father was a miner................

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