The War on Tobacco/Town Ready to Kick Butt

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the iron horse

Rock n' Roll Doggie
Joined
Nov 23, 2004
Messages
3,266
Location
in a glass of CheerWine
And according to the current poll
on the site, most residents agree with a one thousand
dollar fine for tossing a cigarette butt out the
window, but tossing an empty food bag or beer can
still gets you only only three-hundred dollar fine.

*hold hands and sing together: "We are the world, we are the children..."*

www.nbc10.com/news/8163988/detail.html
 
Last edited:
I don't think it really has anything to do with the "war on tobacco".

Cigarette butts collect, and can't get picked up like other litter.

Take a look at a street corner and tell me what the majority of litter is...cigarette butts.

And I have nothing against smoking.
 
I dont get why anyone could complain about this. Just dont do it, and you have no problem. Why anyone has the hide to think they should be able to litter is beyond me. At least one major fire seems to be blamed on careless cigarette butts here each summer, and if losses of lives and hundreds of thousands of dollars of damage is not more important than being able to rid yourself of the inconvenience of a smoke butt, then really it's shame on you.
 
Angela Harlem said:
At least one major fire seems to be blamed on careless cigarette butts here each summer, and if losses of lives and hundreds of thousands of dollars of damage is not more important than being able to rid yourself of the inconvenience of a smoke butt, then really it's shame on you.

Excellent point.
 
"I dont get why anyone could complain about this."


One Thousand dollar fine for a cigarette butt.

Three hundred dollar fine for a beer can or a bag from McDonalds tossed out the car window.


Yeah, that's justice.

Why should anyone complain?
 
the iron horse said:


Yeah, that's justice.

Why should anyone complain?

One is easily picked up by normal city clean up means, one isn't.

Better yet, one can cause major destruction and loss of life.

But yeah we shouldn't complain...use an ashtray.

Why is it so hard to see?
 
Fine, iron horse, you win - I think ANY littering should be a $2000 fine. Fair enough :wink:

What DOES bother me about these fines is that in many places you can beat an animal to death and pay no more than you would for dropping your cigg butt on the ground. That doesn't exactly make sense...
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


One is easily picked up by normal city clean up means, one isn't.

Better yet, one can cause major destruction and loss of life.

But yeah we shouldn't complain...use an ashtray.

Why is it so hard to see?


We are all doomed to an ashtay, in this present life, BonoVoxSupaStar.

My point is whether you think the fines are fair.
 
OK,

One more time.

Where is the justice is the fines?

Am I alone in seeing this a bit unfair?

I'm on with fines of a thousand dollars or more for littering, (or whatever a town aggrees on)
but I don't aggree with singling out cigarette butts for a higher fine.
 
the iron horse said:




My point is whether you think the fines are fair.

cig butt should include a day in jail

litter - a day picking up trash along the road


"No One Likes A Butt Head"
Biloxi, MS Sun Herald, January 20, 1999
Biloxi, MS, firefighters are investigating whether a bird caused a fire this week that spread over several acres in the town. Biloxi Fire Dept. Battalion Chief Wallace Powell: "It could've been started by a bird that picked up a lighted cigarette and dropped it. I've seen it happen before. A bird brought a cigarette to its nest, and a fire started.

-----------------------
Calif. Brush Fire Enters Second Day As Winds Abate
Thursday January 4, 2001

ALPINE, Calif. (Reuters) - A cigarette thrown from a car window by a careless smoker may have sparked a brush fire that forced hundreds of evacuations and hopscotched across 11,000 rural acres near San Diego this week, officials said on Thursday. "It was some kind of smoking material and we're pretty sure it was a cigarette," said Laura Lowes, a spokeswoman for the California Department of Forestry. The incident is still under investigation, a San Diego Sheriff's spokeswoman said.

Efforts to control the fire appeared to be paying off as the fierce winds that had fueled the blaze abated. By Thursday afternoon the fire was about 15 percent contained, as warm Santa Ana winds that raged at speeds up to 65 mph on Wednesday died down to a tamer 15 mph, Lowes said. Meanwhile, San Diego residents headed home from work on Thursday under a nut brown sky amid acrid air and chunks of falling ash, as weary rescue workers braved thick, black smoke to battle the blaze as it roiled the sparsely populated, mountainous area about 30 miles north of the city.
 
the iron horse said:
OK,

One more time.

Where is the justice is the fines?

Am I alone in seeing this a bit unfair?

I'm on with fines of a thousand dollars or more for littering, (or whatever a town aggrees on)
but I don't aggree with singling out cigarette butts for a higher fine.

As a comparison, yes, there is something in that argument. However, butts and regular rubbish pose different hazards rendering the comparison as somewhat flawed anyway, as BVS has pointed out. In all honesty, I'd be happy to see all fines at say $1,000, but you cannot deny there are different problems with a cigarette butt - whether this was taken into account when passing these by-laws, who knows.
 
the iron horse said:

but I don't aggree with singling out cigarette butts for a higher fine.

Ones more dangerous, so yes it's fair. Society defines fines based on how it impacts society, if one is more dangerous then the other, then yes it deserves a higher fee.

I don't see an issue here.
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


Ones more dangerous, so yes it's fair. Society defines fines based on how it impacts society, if one is more dangerous then the other, then yes it deserves a higher fee.

I don't see an issue here.


"Society defines fines based on how it impacts society."

That is what scares me about this Brave New World we seem to be so willing to kiss and embrace.

Whatever the majority rules is law.
 
point a stick at somebody
no fine



point a gun at somebody
suffer consequences



the iron horse
what don't you get?


a stick and gun
are not the same




and little and cig butts are not the same.


if you are throwing your cig butts out the window
I hope you get some jail time.
 
the iron horse said:
"the iron horse
what don't you get?"


The difference in the fines.

Why do you think it is fair?

People have already stated good reasons so I guess I'll say them again:

1. Trash like McDonald's wrappers are easy to sweep up and remove using normal methods cities use. Cigg butts are too small.

2. McDonald's trash is not directly responsible for the destruction of homes and other property and peoples' deaths.


Why do YOU think it's more fair to assume all litter/trash is the same?
 
the iron horse said:
"the iron horse
what don't you get?"


The difference in the fines.

Why do you think it is fair?

:banghead:

With your logic, murder, involuntary manslaughter, and a serial killings should all get the same punishment.

:|
 
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:


People have already stated good reasons so I guess I'll say them again:

1. Trash like McDonald's wrappers are easy to sweep up and remove using normal methods cities use. Cigg butts are too small.

And don't forget cig butts take thousands of years to rot, unlike those plastic bottles.

2. McDonald's trash is not directly responsible for the destruction of homes and other property and peoples' deaths.


Yes, please blame this destruction on all tobacco users. They are all going to die, but if you will live forever.


Why do YOU think it's more fair to assume all litter/trash is the same?
 
the iron horse said:
I don't seem to be getting much support on my view,

so I guess you guys win.

Enjoy your Brave New World

Try actually debating the issue rather than accuse everyone of designing a "brave new world".

You aren't going to get support if you can't debate the issue intelligently.
 
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:


People have already stated good reasons so I guess I'll say them again:

1. Trash like McDonald's wrappers are easy to sweep up and remove using normal methods cities use. Cigg butts are too small.

2. McDonald's trash is not directly responsible for the destruction of homes and other property and peoples' deaths.


Why do YOU think it's more fair to assume all litter/trash is the same?

Sorry, this makes no sense.

The issue is having differing levels of fines for different types of litter. Cigg butts tend to stay where tossed. McDonald's wrappers can get blown with the wind.

So what?

And a cigg butt tossed on a street corner doesn't put a house at risk.

The attempt to quantify a level of fine is bad enough when you compare different crimes (litter vs. animal abuse). The principle for the higher cigg butt fine has not been articulated.
 
I understand your point. The principle behind the fine should then distinguish between still smoldering cigg butts and completely extinguished cigg butts.
 
nbcrusader said:
I understand your point. The principle behind the fine should then distinguish between still smoldering cigg butts and completely extinguished cigg butts.

Do we distinguish between drunk drivers who are driving safe and those that are swerving? No because the potential is still there.

Do we distingish between those that run stop lights in isolated intersections and those of busy intersections?
 
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