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Old 03-23-2006, 07:56 PM   #16
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Originally posted by LJT
Though on a serious note, if one can be on this the whole egg and bunny thing isn't even Christian in origin...in fact it is probably pretty much a secular celebration for many who do celebrate it...
This is correct. The rabbit was a symbol of fertility and spring, and so was the egg, in ancient pagan civilizations. I'm not saying this to demean Christianity, but rather, to point out that the missionaries were smart enough to teach the pagans Christianity in terms that they could understand. Bright guys, those missionaries.
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Old 03-23-2006, 08:02 PM   #17
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
Actually, of the last few centuries.

Did you want to delete John 3:3?
Funny enough, Biblical scholars translate that verse differently:

"Jesus answered and said to him, 'Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above.'"

The Greek adverb, "anothen," means both "from above" and "again." It was meant to be a double entendre, because Nicodemus even says "born again" in John 3:4:

"Nicodemus said to him, 'How can a person once grown old be born again? Surely he cannot reenter his mother's womb and be born again, can he?'"

But Jesus uses his misunderstanding as a springboard for the ultimate moral of the chapter in John 3:31:

"The one who comes from above is above all. The one who is of the earth is earthly and speaks of earthly things. But the one who comes from heaven (is above all)."

This concept is defined in John 1:13:

"But to those who did accept him he gave power to become children of God, to those who believe in his name, who were born not by natural generation nor by human choice nor by a man's decision but of God."

Regardless of the interpretation, "born again Christianity" is mostly a 20th century phenomenon that grew out of 19th century interpretations of the Bible. It's not an original theology.

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Old 03-23-2006, 08:04 PM   #18
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Early Christians were pretty good at that sort of thing...Christmas as well..the Christmas Tree came about I believe because early missionaries in the germanic area of Europe saw that the pagans worshipped or well celebrated the oak tree as such, so the early missionaries switched this adoration to the pine tree i think as it formed a point, an arrow to Heaven...I think this was attributed to a particular saint but i can't remember his name
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Old 03-23-2006, 08:10 PM   #19
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Originally posted by melon


Funny enough, Biblical scholars translate that verse differently:

"Jesus answered and said to him, 'Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above.'"

The Greek adverb, "anothen," means both "from above" and "again." It was meant to be a double entendre, because Nicodemus even says "born again" in John 3:4:

"Nicodemus said to him, 'How can a person once grown old be born again? Surely he cannot reenter his mother's womb and be born again, can he?'"

But Jesus uses his misunderstanding as a springboard for the ultimate moral of the chapter in John 3:31:

"The one who comes from above is above all. The one who is of the earth is earthly and speaks of earthly things. But the one who comes from heaven (is above all)."

This concept is defined in John 1:13:

"But to those who did accept him he gave power to become children of God, to those who believe in his name, who were born not by natural generation nor by human choice nor by a man's decision but of God."

Regardless of the interpretation, "born again Christianity" is mostly a 20th century phenomenon that grew out of 19th century interpretations of the Bible. It's not an original theology.

Melon
Which is exactly my point - you are not a Christian because of your family. "Born again Christianity" is not a 20th century theology - it has been there from the beginning.
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Old 03-23-2006, 08:13 PM   #20
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
Which is exactly my point - you are not a Christian because of your family. "Born again Christianity" is not a 20th century theology - it has been there from the beginning.
I understand your belief in it. I don't think this Biblical passage is inherently bad, but I do think there have been too many lunatics that have maligned this passage for their own purposes.

By interpretation, one does not have to identify as a "born-again Christian" to qualify. They are "anothen" just by being a Christian. But there are many people out there who fixate on the semantics.

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Old 03-23-2006, 08:20 PM   #21
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Granted, there is the political dimension to the term "born again Christian" that generates confusion.

Whether someone adopts the title or not, according to the passages you cite, Jesus spells out what happens when someone comes to faith.
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Old 03-23-2006, 10:06 PM   #22
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I mean wouldn't the fact the place be called St. Paul's be considered offensive to non-christians?
That was my first thought, too. So we're okay with "St. Paul" but not okay with the Easter Bunny? Talk about missing the forest for the trees.
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Old 03-24-2006, 01:34 AM   #23
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That was my first thought, too. So we're okay with "St. Paul" but not okay with the Easter Bunny? Talk about missing the forest for the trees.
Great question...

Why is a city department named after a catolic saint?
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Old 03-24-2006, 06:15 AM   #24
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Originally posted by stammer476


That was my first thought, too. So we're okay with "St. Paul" but not okay with the Easter Bunny? Talk about missing the forest for the trees.
Little known fact: the abbreviation in the name St. Paul actually means Street Paul. Perfectly secular.

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Old 03-24-2006, 11:52 AM   #25
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Great question...

Why is a city department named after a catolic saint?
I wonder how long people have suffered (by persistent feeling of offense) by the historical reference to a person connected to a religion?
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Old 03-24-2006, 12:05 PM   #26
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I can't wait until I get elected and I can hang upside down crucifixes everywhere.
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Old 03-24-2006, 12:34 PM   #27
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Is that how you normally decorate this time of year?
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Old 03-24-2006, 01:31 PM   #28
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I wonder how long people have suffered (by persistent feeling of offense) by the historical reference to a person connected to a religion?
I think names and celebrations are two entirely different things.

We have street names, building names, etc that come from different languages, cultures, and religions all over the place.
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Old 03-24-2006, 01:39 PM   #29
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In 2001 they also briefly banned red poinsettias. That's almost at the point of the red and green napkins or the candy canes.

http://www.startribune.com/484/v-pri...ry/327850.html

The council president, Kathy Lantry, said the removal wasn't about political correctness.

"As government, we have a different responsibility about advancing the cause of religion, which we are not going to do,'' she said.

It's not the first time a holiday symbol has been removed from City Hall. In 2001, red poinsettias were briefly banned from a holiday display because they were associated with Christmas.
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Old 03-24-2006, 02:47 PM   #30
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Frankly, I'd be offended if I was prevented from celebrating one of my religious festivals. So what would the council do to passify me eh?

This planet is treading over eggshells to not upset the people who oppose other religions. It's about time that everyone was able to celebrate their own festivals at the same time that others respected them.

Co-existence is not everyone scaling back their celebrations for fear of offending others, but for others to respectfully allow them to do as they wish.

Let this political correctness madness end before the planet erupts.
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