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Old 06-05-2002, 11:05 PM   #16
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Okay, I'm going to try and word this without sounding like I'm jumping all over you Baker. Your first post was sufficient and would have been enough to initiate intelligent discussion from the various points of view represented in this forum.

BUT...your second post sounded like a challenge and was really unnecessary so don't get pissed off because someone took you up on it. Calling this a shit forum and questiong the ability of the members to think for themselves is not the best way to keep the discussion going.

What life experience are you basing these very strong opinions on? I'm just curious because you stated you are a high school student and I'm wondering how at such a young age you have come to these conclusions. I do agree with you that the DARE program is not working and with some of your opinions on marijuana but I don't think legalizing drugs will solve anything here. I don't know if DARE was meant to manipulate kids and I'm sure in the beginning the organizers were sincere but its kind of lost its original purpose. My kids got nothing out of it and only liked it because they got out class for a while every week.
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Old 06-05-2002, 11:20 PM   #17
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So I can no longer criticize atrocities in other countries if I have not been to those contries personally? So much for "Free Your Mind;" so much for organizations like Amnesty International. Oh well.

~U2Alabama
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Old 06-05-2002, 11:28 PM   #18
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Originally posted by U2Bama
So I can no longer criticize atrocities in other countries if I have not been to those contries personally? So much for "Free Your Mind;" so much for organizations like Amnesty International. Oh well.

~U2Alabama
Oh well.

Re-read my post.

I said there are plent of people that talk crap about 3rd world countries but they themselves have never been to any of them.

Yea, "Free Your Mind". Am I not letting you do this?
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Old 06-05-2002, 11:44 PM   #19
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Have you ever been to Lowndes County, Alabama?
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Old 06-06-2002, 02:07 AM   #20
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You know Baker i agree with many of the things you say but the way you are presenting them is not going to get a disscusion going.

Legalizing MJ is not the right option. Legalizing any drug is not the right option. Drugs will forever be in this world. Everyone plese accept this.

MJ really isnt the most harmful thing in the world. It is harmful. It doesnt kill you and you cant overdose. Smokes kill you and we dont see thread about getting rid of ciggeratees weekly.

Plain and simply i think MJ should be de-criminalized. For those who dont understand the difference it is this; If we were to DC(de-criminalize) MJ we could then clear the courts of petty MJ charges. If, say, 8 grams was the legal limit then we could then fine people for having under that ammount.

Now heres a situation; Your 16, work a part-time job, go to HIgh school and live at home. You are caught by the cops with 3 grams of weed, a reletivly small amount. Your not selling it or anything like that, your own supply. Now the cops have busted you. They now seeing that your a minor turn you over to your parents. I can tell you from expereince nobody wants their parents to know. They also hand you a $250 fine. Now that will take you two weeks to pay off, your parents know that you smoke pot and can intervine and you get put on a record so if your caught again you get a higher fine.

Now what is worse getting a slap on the wrist or the latter.

Also how could you buy anymore weed if you have to pay the gov't. The cops can also take the suffecient time needed to go after the dealers and suppliers.

For the record i do smoke weed once a month. I dont think its anymore harmful then say alchol.
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Old 06-06-2002, 02:45 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Citric
If marijuana is legal, the demand for more potent drugs will be increased. That causes major problems: more deaths, more money spent on expensive 'stronger' drugs, and more people experimenting.
That is not (necessarily) the case. Here in the Netherlands marijuana is de-criminalised a lot. There are even so-called 'coffee-shops' where you can buy marijuana without having to go to a dealer (don't ask me why they are called coffee-shops as I don't suspect they have a wide variety of coffee). But there are not many drug-addicts in the Netherlands, in fact IIRC the Netherlands have one of the lowest numbers in drug-addicts (including those addicted to marijuana). For many, the 'high'-experience of marijuana satisfies all their desires for something stronger than cigarettes. So your reasoning is not a probable scenario.

In essence, the Netherlands has decriminalised the use of drugs (for one's own consumption). It also has a different view on drug (ab)use, seeing it as a medical problem rather than a criminal problem. This allows the police to go after the dealers and not the users. Furthermore, the Netherlands make a distinction between hard drugs (heroine, cocaine, etc.) and soft drugs (marijuana, cannabis). Coffee-shops are allowed to sell soft drugs (albeit under strict conditions) but not hard drugs. This creates a division to prevent people to go to a dealer who, besides the soft drugs, also deals in cocaine, heroine and the like. So those who would like to smoke a joint in the weekend do not come in contact with somebody who tries to entice them in using highly addictive substances.

Quote:

For example, many people don't try marijuana because it's illegal. If you were found with it in my school, you'd get expelled. Most people don't want to take that risk, and so, they don't even bother trying it. If it was legal, don't you think more people would try marijuana? The more people who try marijuana experience the 'high.' Why do druggies go from taking marijuana on to taking cocaine? To better the high. I think that if marijuana was legalized, more people would try it. And then, more people would try more potent drugs. That essentially means that the demand would be up, along with many other negative aspects.
On the other hand, there are also many who want to try someting because it is illegal. As I said, soft drugs are semi-legal here in the Netherlands, yet I (and many others) have never found the need to try it.

Quote:

Of course, this could be debated all you'd like. There's no telling what could happen if MJ wasn't illegal anymore.
Still, the Dutch numbers give a good indication what the situation will be when marijuana would be legalised. And those numbers do not suggest the doom scenario you are afraid of.

C ya!

Marty
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Old 06-06-2002, 02:30 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Bama
Have you ever been to Lowndes County, Alabama?
Hahaha.. That's the funniest thing I've heard this week.. Thank you for allowing me to indulge myself in my weekly soiling of my "drawers" yo.

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Old 06-06-2002, 02:57 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by baker6621
I really think that the U.S. Gov't is doing stupid things.
file this under 'the century, understatement of'
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Old 06-06-2002, 03:50 PM   #24
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The war on drugs is doomed ... the better the gov is at stopping drug trade the higher drug prices go (supply and demand) so the war on drugs helps drug dealers get more $$$ and makes drug trade more attractive to ppl who are willing to take the risks.
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Old 06-06-2002, 04:08 PM   #25
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The war on drugs is doomed ... the better the gov is at stopping drug trade the higher drug prices go (supply and demand) so the war on drugs helps drug dealers get more $$$ and makes drug trade more attractive to ppl who are willing to take the risks.
Inherently faulty logic.. Less Drugs sold.. equals Prices Raised to counteract the smaller number of drugs being sold.. More money Per Drug unit sold perhaps..

Just call me Mr. Logic; Purveyor of the White Muslims.

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Old 06-06-2002, 10:03 PM   #26
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Martijn-

I admit, I did not know much of that before you posted. Thanks for the information... I think there is a different between 'decriminalising' and 'making it legal' however. You've managed to sway my opinion from 'drugs bad, drugs stay illegal' to 'drugs bad, drugs decriminalised.' I can't really disagree with anything you said in that post. I'm just guessing and theorizing about what would happen in the United States, while you're giving me hard facts about the Netherlands.

I still believe that marijuana should not be 'legal', as baker is proposing. I'm mainly disagreeing with his point. But martjin, really, thanks for the (educational) insight about the Netherlands.
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Old 06-06-2002, 10:34 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Citric
If marijuana is legal, the demand for more potent drugs will be increased. That causes major problems: more deaths, more money spent on expensive 'stronger' drugs, and more people experimenting.



Actually... In Amsetrdam after Marijuana was legalized there was a notable decrease in the demand for more potent drugs. See it's like this, if you let people smoke pot then all they are going to do is eat pizza and sit in front of their tv's. The drive to get out and actually find other drugs becomes rather muted.
In reponse to the 'goverment making money' off Marijuana statement, there is actually a small bit of truth to that, but it is more like the drug war makes money off it. See if Marijuana was reduced from a Schedual 3 drug to a schedual 1 drug then about a third of the people who are using schedual three drugs drops off, and the goverment can then no longer justify spending the same ammount of money that they have been on the drug war.
And in response to the DARE is crap comment, I agree whole heartedly. DARE actually made me want to do drugs. By the time that they were tyring to scare me off drugs I was smart enought to know that if these drugs were really as dangerous as they were being portrayed and people were still doin em, then they must be pretty damn fun. Also, and more importantly my dare officer, Officer Mike cheated at kick ball. I knew if that fool was cheating at four square against a bunch of fifth graders then he was not to be trusted. OK, that's my rant...
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Old 06-06-2002, 10:37 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by baker6621


Shoot me cuz I replied to my own post.
*shoots Baker.



Oh, and I'm not shooting you for replying to your own post. It's because you did NEED to reply to your own post. The first post was brilliant all on its own.


*shoots Baker again, but this time, just for fun.

Quote:
But seriously, I'm not presuming. These ppl have admitted to not even visiting countries but still talk like they have. Yes, I have to answer your question, I was born in one. I would never bee such a jackass to talk crap about a country (just cuz the media) and never being outside of the US.
I think this is great! If you really want to strengthen your argument, then discuss what you saw in these countries. I think we could all use some education.

Anyway, Baker, your posts suggest you sure are stressed lately. Here, relax a little.




Oopsy, underage internet drinking. Hope no one minds.





*EDIT

What gives? I put in some smileys, which showed up great in the preview. But when I posted, all I got was a "hosted by Tripod" image. AAAH! Can this be fixed?
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Old 06-07-2002, 12:40 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lemonite


Inherently faulty logic.. Less Drugs sold.. equals Prices Raised to counteract the smaller number of drugs being sold.. More money Per Drug unit sold perhaps..

Just call me Mr. Logic; Purveyor of the White Muslims.

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I have friends in banking.

You want a job?

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Old 06-07-2002, 12:42 AM   #30
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Inherently faulty logic..
Inherently because Baker is young or because he is stupid?

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