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Old 10-22-2005, 09:58 AM   #121
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Old 10-22-2005, 12:12 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


I guess you summed up the whole point of this thread with one question. The word is a normal part of US culture. And now you want to excluded it.
It's part of your US culture not everyone's. But I think you and Sting have shown a great example of thinking everyone fits under your umbrella.
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Old 10-22-2005, 12:16 PM   #123
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Originally posted by randhail


Because Christmas is the name of the holiday, therefore it should be called a Christmas party. No one is forcing anyone to say or use it, but people do and I'm not going to lose sleep over it.
It's the name of the holiday on December 25th. It's the name of the holiday you celebrate, but not all. Other religions have holidays around the same time. No school is having the holiday on December 25th so for you to say it's the name of THE holiday is arrogance.
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Old 10-22-2005, 12:37 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


It's the name of the holiday on December 25th. It's the name of the holiday you celebrate, but not all. Other religions have holidays around the same time. No school is having the holiday on December 25th so for you to say it's the name of THE holiday is arrogance.
Arrogance? Um ok.

Then why stop at Christmas? What if I don't like the name of Independence Day or Halloween? Where does it stop?

For all the non Christmas celebrators out there, why not make them go to school on that day? Surely they wouldn't mind since christmas means nothing to them.
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Old 10-22-2005, 01:09 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally posted by randhail


Arrogance? Um ok.

Then why stop at Christmas? What if I don't like the name of Independence Day or Halloween? Where does it stop?
Here you are being ridiculous again. How do these holidays exclude anyone? These are not religious holidays.
Quote:
Originally posted by randhail

For all the non Christmas celebrators out there, why not make them go to school on that day? Surely they wouldn't mind since christmas means nothing to them.
Because we don't get school off for just Christmas. If you haven't noticed Christmas isn't 2 weeks to a month long.
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Old 10-22-2005, 01:16 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

Here you are being ridiculous again. How do these holidays exclude anyone? These are not religious holidays.


Because we don't get school off for just Christmas. If you haven't noticed Christmas isn't 2 weeks to a month long.

Halloween does have some religious ideas behind it. Since when does Christmas exclude anyone? Anyone is welcome to participate in the giving of gifts and spending time with family and friends. It's excluding to only those that want to be excluded and to those that want to ruin other people's fun.

I'm willing to bet that Christmas is the primary reason for getting time off. Schools realize how important that time is to people. In addition, the Church's Christmas season is a month long celebration after the actual day has passed so is a month long.
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Old 10-22-2005, 01:37 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally posted by randhail



Halloween does have some religious ideas behind it.
In today's context? No.

Quote:
Originally posted by randhail


Since when does Christmas exclude anyone? Anyone is welcome to participate in the giving of gifts and spending time with family and friends. It's excluding to only those that want to be excluded and to those that want to ruin other people's fun.
Um no it's excluding to those who don't believe in Jesus. Have you forgot that it's the celebration of Jesus' birth?
Quote:
Originally posted by randhail

In addition, the Church's Christmas season is a month long celebration after the actual day has passed so is a month long.
Wait, you mean your church is still allowed to celebrate Christmas? That's a relief because for awhile there the way some of you were talking I thought liberals stole Christmas from you.
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Old 10-22-2005, 01:43 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Um no it's excluding to those who don't believe in Jesus. Have you forgot that it's the celebration of Jesus' birth?
It is not excluding anyone unless they want to be excluded. Have you ever been to a Christmas party where only Christians were invited? No one is asking for proof of belief in Jesus at the door of these parties. I haven't seen a bouncer trying to convert people either. It's about having a goodtime and enjoying yourself. If people are incapable of realizing that and enjoying themself, well then I might see the need to exclude people like that. It's simply part of our culture...well unless the pissing and moaning gets to people and they change the name.

We have a work Christmas party that Hindus and Buddhists and non-religious people attend. How is that excluding anyone? No one is
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Old 10-22-2005, 02:02 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally posted by randhail


It is not excluding anyone unless they want to be excluded. Have you ever been to a Christmas party where only Christians were invited? No one is asking for proof of belief in Jesus at the door of these parties. I haven't seen a bouncer trying to convert people either. It's about having a goodtime and enjoying yourself. If people are incapable of realizing that and enjoying themself, well then I might see the need to exclude people like that. It's simply part of our culture...well unless the pissing and moaning gets to people and they change the name.

We have a work Christmas party that Hindus and Buddhists and non-religious people attend. How is that excluding anyone? No one is
Then how is it a Christmas party when it isn't on Christmas day and you aren't celebrating the birth of Christ. If it's just a party and happens to be during the holidays, call it a holiday party.

There's no bigotry or persecution in doing so. The only thing going on here is people's stubborness to hold on to something and them wanting to blame liberals, or the PC movement, etc. It's a game they love to play. But by your own admission the party you described above has nothing to do with Christmas, but the debate has everything to do with their game.
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Old 10-22-2005, 02:18 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sherry Darling
Mmmmm....I am treading lightly hear. A lot has been said that I agree with (thanks Angie! and Yolland ). A few quickies that I think might benefit this debate.

1. Sting, may I ask when the last time you were involved with public schools? I don't know if you have kids, or were/are a teacher, administrator. If you were/are any of these things, my feeling is you'd know it DOES cause problems.

2. Might we do well to distinguish between bigotry (being left out, disrespected, disliked for one's faith, whatever it is) which I could agree does happen to all faith groups at different times in the US, Christians included...and persecution, which would have to be more serious in my definition of the word (involving actual STATE restriction of rights, violence, being jailed, arrested, etc, as happens often to Christians in places like Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, etd --see Amnesty Intl)--and those of other faiths in many other parts of the world).

3. What do we mean by USE of the word Christmas, exactly? There's a difference between somone casually saying "Merry Christmas" at the water cooler and having signs up all over the lunch room saying "You're invited to our annual Christmas Party".

4. A-Wanderer: A Jews a religion or a race? (Yes, this is a trick question. )
Yes, please describe to me the horror and persecution that has resulted from calling Christmas, Christmas. From calling a party a Christmas party. Do you know any child that was adversly effected by this from the begining of the formation of this country to today? If so explain how. There is simply no reason to change an American cultural tradition to satisfy the tiny minority of people who want to wipe out anything that might remotely refer to christianity in Goverment places or schools.

The same people who want a Christmas Party to be refered to as a Holiday Party would obviously be offended if BONO sang "I Wish You A Merry Christmas" during 11 O'Clock Tick Tock as he did during the Pre-War tour in December 1982.
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Old 10-22-2005, 02:21 PM   #131
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I'm more amused by all the people here who are offended by calling something a "Holiday Party," since we're so happy to trivialize what offends people.

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Old 10-22-2005, 02:26 PM   #132
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Wow this thread is still going strong. Much fuss about nothing methinks.

We celebrate Halloween here and that's not a Christian festival. So, no I don't think celebrating Christmas is discriminating against non-Christians.
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Old 10-22-2005, 02:30 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2




The same people who want a Christmas Party to be refered to as a Holiday Party would obviously be offended if BONO sang "I Wish You A Merry Christmas" during 11 O'Clock Tick Tock as he did during the Pre-War tour in December 1982.
Um, no. These are two entirely different venues, two entirely different things.

You're reaching now.
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Old 10-22-2005, 02:32 PM   #134
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We celebrate Halloween here and that's not a Christian festival. So, no I don't think celebrating Christmas is discriminating against non-Christians.
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Old 10-22-2005, 03:03 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


It's part of your US culture not everyone's. But I think you and Sting have shown a great example of thinking everyone fits under your umbrella.
What do you mean MY US culture?? This is really stretching.

What are you after? A gray, secular culture that is completely devoid of all the elements that make up our culture today (because there are no completely universal elements)?

You've essentially validated the author's argument by saying "Christmas doesn't apply to everyone, therefor we should completely remove it from public view (Christians must justify their use of the word Christmas).
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