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Old 10-21-2005, 03:40 PM   #91
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Originally posted by Irvine511




hopefully, the elections in 2006 and in 2008 will eliminate the need for a theocracy watch.

until then, i stand, ever vigilant.

Here, here! Your vigilance is appreciated.
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Old 10-21-2005, 03:45 PM   #92
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These threads make me laugh.

People think persecution is changing a Christmas party to a holiday party?

Seriously, some of you need some big time perspective adjustments.


The real war on Christmas should be taken up against the retail and greeting card industry, not liberals.

The whiny "persecuted" Christian right need to take a look in the mirror because little baby santa, I mean Jesus is crying.


This thread is a joke.
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Old 10-21-2005, 05:05 PM   #93
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I'm still waiting for an actual example of persecuted Christians in the United States.
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Old 10-21-2005, 05:30 PM   #94
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Originally posted by martha
I'm still waiting for an actual example of persecuted Christians in the United States.
Don't hold your breath!!!
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Old 10-21-2005, 06:08 PM   #95
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Originally posted by randhail


My post was in regard to prayer rooms at airports, not about school. I'm well aware the law states kids have to go to school.
I appreciate the clarification. However, the fact that schooling is mandatory is why I feel your arguement that we can just send a kid to the library during the Christmas party isn't Constitutional, or ethical.
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Old 10-21-2005, 06:24 PM   #96
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Originally posted by phanan
An article from a rabbi last year:

In Denver, a church was banned from the city's Festival of Lights parade because it wanted a Christian religious theme to its float.
Very good article.

I will point out that this year, they are allowing them to have their float.

But no word on if the Jewish, Muslim or pagan communities get one though!
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Old 10-21-2005, 06:24 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally posted by martha
I'm still waiting for an actual example of persecuted Christians in the United States.
Can we give examples of bigotry?

Even here?
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Old 10-21-2005, 06:29 PM   #98
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Originally posted by Irvine511
it is amazing how well you argue the role of the victim when it is your turn to feel discriminated against.
I hope you appreciate how your arguments against other forms of bigotry are not dismissed as "playing the victim".
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Old 10-21-2005, 06:37 PM   #99
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Can we give examples of bigotry?

Can we agree that bigotry and persecution are 2 different things?
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Old 10-21-2005, 07:19 PM   #100
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Originally posted by indra



There are US citizens of other faiths. The US is a SECULAR state with people of many (and no) faiths. Christians should not forget that.
Did I say the United States was not a country of many faiths? Did I claim the United Sates was exclusively a Christian Country.

There are small cultural traditions in this country that do not persecute people of other faiths and should not be changed simply to please a parents obsessive political views. Can you name anyone who has suffered over the past two centurys in the United States because December 25 through early January has been known as and refered to as Christmas Time!
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Old 10-21-2005, 07:22 PM   #101
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
All I have to say is boo hoo

No one's taking your trees or mangers from your home or church, if that happens then it will be an issue.

Sting let me ask you this. Have you ever gone to a school or worked in an office that had a Jewish holiday party, Muslim holiday party?
Yep, roll your eyes.

Has anyone suffered because we called December 25 Christmas or announced they were having a Christmas party etc. Most Americans have for decades or centuries celebrated and refered to Christmas in such ways. I don't think anyone is harmed by that. There is no need to simply refer to it as the "holidays".
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Old 10-21-2005, 07:27 PM   #102
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Meaning what? That as a Jewish American, I am the equivalent of a tourist in a foreign land? There have been Jews here since colonial times, and Jewish Americans fought and died in the Revolution (and all our other wars) right alongside the Christians and secularists. Even if that weren't true, it has zero relevance to who "owns" the American cultural legacy. We all do.

Having often had to either work or be in school during Yom Kippur, the holiest day in our calendar (and that's leaving alone all the lesser Jewish holidays unacknowledged by national holiday legislation), I find it hard to be sympathetic to someone going ballistic about how not being able to listen to instrumental carols in school constitutes "religious persecution." I agree with VertigoGal, many of those restrictions are laughably absurd, but the proper locus of blame is PC run amuck, not some nefarious minority plot to take over and run Christians out of the country.

Religious minorities support political secularism because we fear religious majoritarianism (with good historical reason too) and because we believe it is ultimately the fairest way to preserve freedom of religion for everyone--not because we wish to subject Christians or anyone else to everything we've been through. (Not that Christians are strangers to religious persecution either: think Ireland under British rule, the Puritans and the Huguenots, Greek Orthodoxy under the Ottomans, Eastern Orthodox and everyone else under the Soviets, etc. etc....)

If the price of this protection is a little less of those collective national warm fuzzies to go around at holiday time, then so be it. We'll live. I don't need to live in Israel to feel like I belong to the culture around me, and I'd like it to stay that way.
Great, but Americans have been calling December 25 and the time around there "Christmas Time" for decades if not centuries. No one suffered or died because of that fact. There is simply no need to refer to the time period as strictly "holidays". Its always been refered to as Christmas Time and that should not change for the tiny minority that thinks they have the right to suddenly change a cultural tradition they don't like.
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Old 10-21-2005, 07:32 PM   #103
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Originally posted by STING2


Yep, roll your eyes.

Has anyone suffered because we called December 25 Christmas or announced they were having a Christmas party etc. Most Americans have for decades or centuries celebrated and refered to Christmas in such ways. I don't think anyone is harmed by that. There is no need to simply refer to it as the "holidays".
No one is saying don't call Christmas Christmas.

But a child who's not Christian who's going to a Christmas party at school and taking part in Christmas activities may be confused as to why his faith isn't being recognized.

No one's going to lose anything if they can't do Christmas at school. I mean come on.

Some of you are really losing sight as to what Christmas is about and what this country is about.

And the author of this book should step out of his or her little shell for one second and take a good look at themselves.
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Old 10-21-2005, 07:37 PM   #104
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


No one is saying don't call Christmas Christmas.

But a child who's not Christian who's going to a Christmas party at school and taking part in Christmas activities may be confused as to why his faith isn't being recognized.

No one's going to lose anything if they can't do Christmas at school. I mean come on.

Some of you are really losing sight as to what Christmas is about and what this country is about.
Have you been to a public school Christmas party? The one's I attended growing up didn't have a shred of religion in them. People brought in food and exchanged gifts. It wasn't about acting a nativity, it was about enjoying some good times with your friends.

Put yourself in the shoes of a 12 year-old, who has had Christmas parties throughout their schooling then they suddenly stop? This would a big thing for a 12 year-old. I personally would be pissed. It's like a company taking away a certain perk you've had for many years. People would be upset. Are we going to take away all the fun that children have because some people don't like it?
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Old 10-21-2005, 07:40 PM   #105
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Have you been to a public school Christmas party? The one's I attended growing up didn't have a shred of religion in them. People brought in food and exchanged gifts. It wasn't about acting a nativity, it was about enjoying some good times with your friends.
Then why not call it a holiday party? Seems pretty easy to me.
Quote:
Originally posted by randhail

Put yourself in the shoes of a 12 year-old, who has had Christmas parties throughout their schooling then they suddenly stop? This would a big thing for a 12 year-old. Are we going to take away all the fun that children have because some people don't like it?
So all the fun gets taken away when you change the name? Oh my...
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