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Old 10-21-2005, 11:57 AM   #46
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I'm sure there are examples of anti-Christian prejudice in history. However to pretend Christians are persecuted in twenty-first century America is nonsense.
Being that you are not a Christian in America, how can you dismiss it so outrightly? I thought bigotry was defined by the victim.
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Old 10-21-2005, 11:59 AM   #47
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And, as I intended to mention in my previous post - why "our" airports? Aren't Muslims a part of "our" society (by which I'm guessing you mean your own country or perhaps just the West in general)?
Well, I would argue Europe has a predominantly Christian heritage. Certainly, Muslims can be a part of our society (and yes, I meant the West in general, but I was probably thinking of Europe more than the US). But frankly, not if they view the Koran as the fundamental arbiter of what laws to follow and what not to (and it appears that some do).
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Old 10-21-2005, 11:59 AM   #48
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So why don't we go back to your example about schools. You said you would "make the people who find it offensive leave the classroom." Why should some children be excluded from class because you want to celebrate a particular religion? Why are your religious convictions important enough to give you the right to exclude others?
If you have a classroom with 25 students that celebrate Christmas and 1 student that doesn't, why should all them be punished? I really doubt the kid would object to the party, but the parents probably would. In that case, ask the student to go to the library or give him some computer time.
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Old 10-21-2005, 12:01 PM   #49
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And it is curious how you say bigotry is okay, but you'll laugh at some forms of bigotry.
Actually I said it isn't okay but I'll assume you just made a typing error. That aside, I don't laugh at bigotry - I laugh at the idea that Christians are the victim of it in twenty-first century American society.
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Old 10-21-2005, 12:01 PM   #50
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So why don't we go back to your example about schools. You said you would "make the people who find it offensive leave the classroom." Why should some children be excluded from class because you want to celebrate a particular religion? Why are your religious convictions important enough to give you the right to exclude others?
You argument only holds water if the school room celebration is explicitly Christian. That doesn't happen anymore and is not part of the discussion.
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Old 10-21-2005, 12:02 PM   #51
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In that case, ask the student to go to the library or give him some computer time.

Sounds like a reasonable solution to me.
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Old 10-21-2005, 12:03 PM   #52
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You argument only holds water if the school room celebration is explicitly Christian. That doesn't happen anymore and is not part of the discussion.
I'm pretty sure singing a Christmas carol is in fact explicitly Christian.
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Old 10-21-2005, 12:05 PM   #53
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Actually I said it isn't okay but I'll assume you just made a typing error. That aside, I don't laugh at bigotry - I laugh at the idea that Christians are the victim of it in twenty-first century American society.
Yes, the first part was a typo. But since you are not a Christian in 21st century American society, on what basis do you laugh at the bigotry that exists here. Even using the name of the Christian God (Jesus Christ) in a disrespectful manner is part of everyday language for some people.
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Old 10-21-2005, 12:05 PM   #54
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


I'm pretty sure singing a Christmas carol is in fact explicitly Christian.
So Frosty the snowman, Rudolph the red nosed reindeer, Jingle bell rock, and Santa Claus is coming to town are explicitly Christian christmas carols?
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Old 10-21-2005, 12:05 PM   #55
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If you have a classroom with 25 students that celebrate Christmas and 1 student that doesn't, why should all them be punished? I really doubt the kid would object to the party, but the parents probably would. In that case, ask the student to go to the library or give him some computer time.
They're not being punished though -- all I'm saying is that religious celebrations don't belong in a school which should be a place where children of all faiths and no faith are equally welcome. To exclude any children from participating in an event because of their religion is wrong.
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Old 10-21-2005, 12:07 PM   #56
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I'm pretty sure singing a Christmas carol is in fact explicitly Christian.
In addition to randhail's point, the example given in the book have nothing to do with singing Christian lyrics. It dealt with playing instrumental versions of carols.
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Old 10-21-2005, 12:07 PM   #57
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


They're not being punished though -- all I'm saying is that religious celebrations don't belong in a school which should be a place where children of all faiths and no faith are equally welcome. To exclude any children from participating in an event because of their religion is wrong.
If you take away a Christmas party, then you are punishing them. These are not parties with a nativity scene acted out, it's doing secret santa and decorating a tree.
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Old 10-21-2005, 12:08 PM   #58
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Originally posted by randhail
If you have a classroom with 25 students that celebrate Christmas and 1 student that doesn't, why should all them be punished? I really doubt the kid would object to the party, but the parents probably would. In that case, ask the student to go to the library or give him some computer time.
In Dearborn, Michigan, they have the largest population of Muslims outside of the Middle East. In the public schools in this area, Christians are probably a small minority compared to all the Muslim students.

So would it be okay to tell the Christian students to go to the library and give them computer time, if they object to celebrations of Muslim holidays? Would it be okay if they flat out did not mention Christmas, while parading Muslim holidays? Would it be okay if they were forced to go to school on Christmas? After all, why punish the Muslim majority, just because a few Christians are around for the ride?

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Old 10-21-2005, 12:09 PM   #59
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Yes, the first part was a typo. But since you are not a Christian in 21st century American society, on what basis do you laugh at the bigotry that exists here. Even using the name of the Christian God (Jesus Christ) in a disrespectful manner is part of everyday language for some people.
If we're talking about simple personal experience then I'll just say that I have lived in America. But I think if you base political debate about one individual's experience then you fail to understand the way that various social groups in society interact and how their experiences of society differ.

I don't believe for a second that someone saying "Jesus Christ" "Oh my God" or even for that matter, as one of my friends has an interesting habit of uttering "Christ on his cross" constitutes bigotry against Christians. And hey, using your own arguments - if you guys don't like people using those phrases then you'd be free to just leave, right? Nobody's forcing you to be around people who use phrases you don't like.
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Old 10-21-2005, 12:10 PM   #60
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...nobody has mentioned that even though America accepts all religions - middle eastern countries don't accept christianity at all...King Fahd in an interview stated that it's ok for the westerners living there to practice thier faith as long as it's not in public....so I'm assuming that no churches (or chapels at airports for that matter) would be built for them.

I think ALL countries should be accepting of all religions....and we all should live happy in peace and tranquility
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