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Old 07-12-2002, 08:18 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by cloudimani
if it wasnt for nations we'd all be one big United States *shudders*
At least then we wouldn't have to debate the title of U2's upcoming single, "the hands that built America"
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Old 07-12-2002, 09:32 PM   #17
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It is amazing that all of you people get your panties in such a wad over "God Bless America." I concur with JessicaAnn and Achtung Bubba; simply asking/praying for God to "bless" you own country does NOT mean for him to curse all others! Whine me a river.

Let's look at songs praising some of the other popular interference countries:

Canda's "O Canada" says:

God keep our land glorious and free!

And what do the Dutch sing in their national anthem???

You, my God and Lord, are my shield, on You I rely.On You I will build; never leave me, So that I may remain pious, your servant at all moments,Dispelling the tyranny that wounds my heart.

I also agree with BassTrap, a Canadian, I might add! Nationalism and patriotism are indeed different. Does the fact that I fly my country's flag mean that I want to eliminate relations with all other nations? Not at all!

~U2Alabama
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Old 07-12-2002, 09:43 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Bama
It is amazing that all of you people get your panties in such a wad over "God Bless America." Whine me a river.
LoL Bama

Quote:
Let's look at songs praising some of the other popular interference countries:
yes, let's look

Quote:
Canda's "O Canada" says:

God keep our land glorious and free!

And what do the Dutch sing in their national anthem???

You, my God and Lord, are my shield, on You I rely.On You I will build; never leave me, So that I may remain pious, your servant at all moments,Dispelling the tyranny that wounds my heart.
Well very interesting!
SO these threads of late all seemed to ignore the Dutch and Canadians for some reason, as if they did not even have a national anthem

Quote:
I also agree with BassTrap, a Canadian, I might add! Nationalism and patriotism are indeed different. Does the fact that I fly my country's flag mean that I want to eliminate relations with all other nations? Not at all!

~U2Alabama
EXACTLY! very well done Bro
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Old 07-13-2002, 12:01 AM   #19
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It seems to me that nationalism is bad and patriotism is good - and that nationalism is simply patriotism taken to an extreme.

This shouldn't be surprising. Some mothers love their children so much that they spoil them.

Or, to paraphrase (yet again) from C.S. Lewis, all loves but the love for God should be moderated.

Any other love that becomes a god immediately becomes a demon.
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Old 07-13-2002, 12:31 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Bama
It is amazing that all of you people get your panties in such a wad over "God Bless America." I concur with JessicaAnn and Achtung Bubba; simply asking/praying for God to "bless" you own country does NOT mean for him to curse all others! Whine me a river.
i can't speak for anyone else who said anything about that, but i can clarify how i feel about god bless america. i certainly don't think it implies "bless america, and curse the rest of the world!" i just think it seems a bit...high and mighty, i guess. it's hard to put into words, really. but i guess it's like, what makes america deserve god's blessings over any other country? not instead of anyone else, like there's only one country who can get god's blessings and america's saying it's us, but, i always interpreted it like, wanting more than our fair share or something.
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Old 07-13-2002, 02:20 AM   #21
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im sorry, but im at the point, where ideally (ideally almost never means realistically, mind you) i dont want to take a look at a map and see that there are borders made by humans saying this is our land, and that is your land.

i see no point to it, i am not patriotic, there is no reason to be. sure i live in a great part of the world, but then again, i also happen to live in a part of the world where we exploit poor people. i guess my ignorance is bliss. well im not ignorant.

i dont see why we cant abolish everything. destroy every remnant of government and rule, and start all over again.

ofcourse thats rediculous, and it will never happen.

but if it did happen, i think some great things would happen.

one can never be self-reliant enough. all you people following bono around africa recently, what was a big thing they focused on? the desire to get africa to support themselves! imagine that on a smaller scale yet...familys being able to produce everything for themselves.

go back in time 200 years, people didnt count on some courier to ship pinapoles (that is spelled horribly wrong) so that we can have our hawaiin pizza in canada. everything was done by us, for us.

ofcourse my opinion on this matter is correct, and to be considered fact.
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Old 07-13-2002, 05:51 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Bama
It is amazing that all of you people get your panties in such a wad over "God Bless America." I concur with JessicaAnn and Achtung Bubba; simply asking/praying for God to "bless" you own country does NOT mean for him to curse all others! Whine me a river.
I agree


Quote:
Originally posted by Zoomerang96
i see no point to it, i am not patriotic, there is no reason to be. sure i live in a great part of the world, but then again, i also happen to live in a part of the world where we exploit poor people.
I agree
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Old 07-13-2002, 07:04 AM   #23
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Bear. There is no 'e' in ridiculous. And what is Rhineland? Ever had riesling? I dont like Hawaiin pizza personally. But I have no problem with Hawaii.
And you know what else? Come park a boat on Bondi Beach and tell me there are no borders.
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Old 07-13-2002, 09:01 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zoomerang96
i dont see why we cant abolish everything. destroy every remnant of government and rule, and start all over again.
because that would never work. I wish it would but could you imagine all these people trying to work things out with each other?? I can't even get along with my own sisters!! it would be total anarchy. it's better to keep some form of control. maybe it would work if the world was only a couple thousand people and everything wasn't distributed so unfairly, but human nature is never going to allow anything like that to happen.
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Old 07-13-2002, 09:19 AM   #25
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saying Nationalism is useless seems just an excuse for preserving the politcal status quo, is it so unthinkable that the demographic of a place may change and people want changes, want a country they can call their own.

Nationalism isnt the cause of the world's problems, in some cases, yes it is hijacked and used as an excuse for violence, but there is nothing wrong with people being less than happy with the present situation, wanting change.

If I call myself a Irish nationalist, does that make me evil, does it make me a political troublemaker? I dont hate people, or for the most part (obviously excluding certain political figures) even dislike people with different opinions to me. Quite the opposite.
I dont however condone violence as any way to go about solving problems, either for legitimate or illegitimate groups. I believe firmly in democracy, of course when properly implemented.

As paradoxical as it may seem I dont agree with National Anthems or obnoxiously flying flags in people's faces. Just another excuse for people who want to antagonise their "opponents".
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Old 07-13-2002, 12:47 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Achtung Bubba
Isn't it presumptuous to assume "God save the Queen" actually means "God save the Queen and only the Queen"?

I don't that can be reasonably implied.

It would be analogous for condemning a man for praying for the health of his own wife - as if that means he's praying against the health of everyone else.
That's right that this saying doesn't mean that the rest of the world shouldn't be saved, but the fact of praising the Queen that high is simply not right in my opinion since there are also other big persons who need to be 'saved'......
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Old 07-13-2002, 01:17 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
Bear. There is no 'e' in ridiculous.
i know. it really makes it hard to give an argument credibility when it looks like it was written by a 10 year old AOL user.
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Old 07-13-2002, 01:55 PM   #28
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beans

at the very beginning, i said id ramble through this and i have. its not an essay, nor do i want it to be.

khanada you can shut the fuck up. see? id say thats the response of an insecure 14-17 year old, dont you? at least its an improvement on a 10 year old, right? i know your proud of me.

when i write late at night, i simply type and do not look into my errors. thats what my job is for, and when i get home, i dont feel like working. btw, i will point out all of your sentance structure, grammar, and spelling problems out for the next while.

thanks to everyone else who has given their valuable opinion.
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Old 07-13-2002, 04:00 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by sulawesigirl4
I could have sworn that I read somewhere recently that God was Brazilian.
Common saying here, in a more specific context though, related to natural disasters like earthquakes, tornados, volcanos, things that happen in other countries but not here. I mean, when we talk about an earthquake, lets say, in Turkey, we usually say that God is Brazilian for such things dont happen in Brasil.

As for the main topic, I agree that there is a difference between nationalism and patriotism. Extreme nationalism is evil...wasnt the word nationalism that generated that other one, nazism?
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Old 07-13-2002, 04:43 PM   #30
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Re: beans

Quote:
Originally posted by Zoomerang96
khanada you can shut the fuck up. see? id say thats the response of an insecure 14-17 year old, dont you? at least its an improvement on a 10 year old, right? i know your proud of me.
emmm...right. i wouldn't say insecure, more like immature. it's a little hard to follow people's thoughts if there's typos. maybe a spell-check option for posts wouldn't be such a bad idea. and no, i'm not signalling you out, everyone makes typos.
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