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Old 12-13-2002, 04:29 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
It might be better to talk of the unwarrented insecurity of foreigners outside the USA.
Sounds like a thread to me....

As a member of the voting public, I am impressed with the way the President has worked through the interantional community to get the resolutions passed. I am impressed with the fact that the President has the inspectors back inside Iraq. I am impressed with the fact that not a single American Soldier has been sent into battle (No Fly Zone excluded). So far, I have seen him as a very effective player on the world scene.

The handling of the ships from North Korea is excellent. Definitely a nice play to let them know we are watching them as well. Just a little, hello, we know you are shipping these weapons. If N. Korea takes other steps down the road towards war...that is their choice.

He has been open to other causes as well, helping with some of the debt relief ect.

Again, many people question the way the man was elected. Take that out of the picture and really, the only thing I think sucks is the economy. I am also concerned with the environmental issues that may be neglected. The Alaskan drilling is not a concern of mine. We need oil. We have not moved into a viable alternative yet.
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Old 12-13-2002, 04:53 PM   #92
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Hear.
Hear.

Another great post by Dread

Diamond
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Old 12-13-2002, 05:43 PM   #93
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Originally posted by pub crawler
Jokes aside, I am truly astonished that some of the North Americans involved in this discussion cannot see why foreigners might be put off by the whole "America saved your ass" attitude shown by some here. It's perplexing.
Not really North Americans IMO. We've had a number of Canadians on this thread who understand what's being said.
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Old 12-13-2002, 06:29 PM   #94
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Originally posted by anitram


Not really North Americans IMO. We've had a number of Canadians on this thread who understand what's being said.


true, true.... I should have said "U.S. citizens."
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Old 12-14-2002, 02:53 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


The Alaskan drilling is not a concern of mine. We need oil. We have not moved into a viable alternative yet.
I cant believe you think this!!!

Its not a concern of yours? Of course it is. What because Alaska isnt in the core of America ift doesnt matter or do you think that you need oil it doesnt matter what sort of wildlife and national parks are killed.

I find that to be a very ugly remark!

Just because you need oil doesnt mean you rip places apart for it. If you lived in a city and there was oil beneath it would you think well its none of my concern we need oil so rip my house up!!!

I cant comprehand!
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Old 12-14-2002, 03:38 AM   #96
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Normal

And beside of this, pure exploration of our natural resources is a attack on the future of our children. Not only cars are driving on oil, we use oil in our medicine, in plastic for medical use and in space. What can we do without oil in the future.
We even need oil to produce solar energy cells.

It is a shame that critics against the USA goverment often ends in , Why do you hate Americans ????

Read you,....
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Old 12-14-2002, 09:48 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally posted by bonoman


I cant believe you think this!!!

Its not a concern of yours? Of course it is. What because Alaska isnt in the core of America ift doesnt matter or do you think that you need oil it doesnt matter what sort of wildlife and national parks are killed.

I find that to be a very ugly remark!

Just because you need oil doesnt mean you rip places apart for it. If you lived in a city and there was oil beneath it would you think well its none of my concern we need oil so rip my house up!!!

I cant comprehand!

Hold on, allow me to pick myself of the floor from laughing so hard. You really did a lot of work, reading into and embellishing my comments. Did I say destroy the state of Alaska to find oil? Did I say destroy and entire National Park to find oil? Mainland USA? Where do you get off putting those words into my mouth and implying these are MY thoughts. Where did I say:

"IN OUR SEARCH FOR OIL, WE WILL NOT TARGET THE MAINLAND!!!! LETS GO INTO ALASKA RIP DOWN THE TREES AND KILL THE ANIMALS!!! "


Seriously,

If I thought they were ripping apart the entire state...yes I would be concerned. So far I have seen nothing to indicate that they are ripping apart the entire state. So far, they are(will be) doing exploration, which to the best of my limited knowledge, is not destrying an entire national park.But, given the fact that we can potentially be held hostage by countries that do control the oil reserves, I am for it YES!


When there is a viable alternative to oil, I will 100% support an end. Now, for my country it makes no sense to allow ourselves to be held hostage by other countries.

Do you have evidence that the entire state of Alaska is being destroyed? Do you have evidence that an entire National Forest is being destroyed?

I find you to be extremely hostile. I find your arguments to be personal. That's ok with me I can take it. Just don't waste too many brain cells trying to put words in my mouth.

Peace
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Old 12-14-2002, 11:28 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox



I find you to be extremely hostile. I find your arguments to be personal.

Peace
me too.
I sorta of give him a pass based on his youth and inexpiernce in life..
I said a lot of foolish things when I was 20 too..

DB9
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Old 12-14-2002, 06:07 PM   #99
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Diamond i'm 19..

Dread if you found them personal sorry.

But being to Alaska many times i have seen a very presitne and beatiful place. I am from the oil capital of NA and my family and friends make loads of money off of oil. But i really think people in the states think because Alaska is not in the core part of the country it doesnt matter. Maybe this isnt your feeling.

You would need to spend many many many $ to bring the oil industry of Alaska to its full potential. I would think in your best intrest, that you would hold on to it until oil is really scarse.

Sorry if i seemed pissed.

Diamond, i used to really hate you but i dont anymore, and i thank you for giving some of my posts merit. You might think i am a liberal but in actuallilty i have never supported or voted(even though i've only voted a few times) for a liberal.

I put my hand out and say thanks for all the good chatter.
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Old 12-14-2002, 06:54 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally posted by bonoman
I put my hand out and say thanks for all the good chatter.
Peace to you!
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Old 12-14-2002, 07:18 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
When there is a viable alternative to oil, I will 100% support an end. Now, for my country it makes no sense to allow ourselves to be held hostage by other countries.
This argument is partially mute. Even if we started today on Alaska, it takes a minimum of 10 years just for oil exploration, and that doesn't even include building the oil well and piping the oil. All exploring for oil at this point will do is placate some Texan oil magnates that are buddies of Dubya and his father, because I'm sure we'll be able to perfect hydrogen fuel cells in ten years time.

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Old 12-15-2002, 04:14 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond

I said a lot of foolish things when I was 20 too..

DB9
not much changed there then...
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Old 12-15-2002, 05:58 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally posted by bonoman


I find that to be a very ugly remark!
Ok (bonoman) why dont you go f@#%ing cry. I (took) it as a joke. But really the only joke here is your post.

For the record, I do not WANT oil exporation and drilling in the Alaskan National Wildlife Refuge. That being said, it is a "national wildlife refuge" as opposed to a "national park," and I have not heard of it potentially "killing a national park." Wildlife refuges, wildlife management areas, national forests and the like are often considered for limited and heavily regulated resource uses, as is the case with the current ANWR proposals. A 45,000 acre Wildlife Management Area is about 2 miles from my home, and it is home to some of the largest wildlife populations in Alabama. Prior to its designation as a WMA, it was used for methane and other natural gas drilling. Now it is an abundant wildlife home.

The proposed exploration site is a small portion of the greater Refuge, and exploring/drilling there would be far less risky than additional water-based drilling in the Eastern Gulf of Mexico, yet you hear very little media coverage of Gulf drilling. My concern with ANWR drilling, however, is that if the initial exploration is succesful, the scope of drilling will increase geographically. For the longest time, ofshore drilling in the Western Gulf of Mexico has gone forth unimpeded, and the Eastern Gulf of Mexico was always left alone. However, the movement to drill in the Eastern sector has gradually increased and snuck up on those who are opposed to it. With ANWR, something should be done in advance to ensure a limited scope for such exploration and drilling.

~U2Alabama
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Old 12-16-2002, 02:12 AM   #104
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Could i borrow a tissue?
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Old 12-16-2002, 01:23 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
As a member of the voting public, I am impressed with the way the President has worked through the interantional community to get the resolutions passed. I am impressed with the fact that the President has the inspectors back inside Iraq.
I think this "working with the international community" stuff is just a formality for the sake of appearances. Everyone knows that if Bush wants to invade Iraq, he will do so regardless of what the international community has to say. The US made it abundantly clear that if the resolutions weren't passed, they would go it alone. And what country would be foolish enough to vote against the US anyway, risking repercussions down the line? Remember, "you're either for us or against us" there are no shades of grey...

Quote:
Whats most puzzling is this assertion that because America has saved many people over the past century that we think we are superior to anyone?!?! Since when did anyone here say that Americans were personaly superior to anyone?

We have certainly had many people come out with, chip on the shoulder attitude, to the USA. Whats really astonishing is the unobjective nature of the criticism and this false assumption of superiority that Americans have. It might be better to talk of the unwarrented insecurity of foreigners outside the USA.
Sting2, up to now this entire conversation has focussed on the military, but I think the reason that people believe that Americans think they are superior to everyone, is because we are bombarded 24/7 with movies and TV images of Americans singing "God Bless America" and chanting USA! USA! USA! and saying that they are the greatest country in the whole world, and threatening to kick people's asses etc.....

The point is, if Americans think their country is #1 in the world, then by default, they must also be the #1 people of the world. We are given the impresson that there is this sense of entitlement in being an American, like they are God's chosen people.

It's like when your team wins, or your country wins a Gold Medal there is this wonderful feeling because you associate yourself with your team and you feel like YOU are winning. Well, there's no doubt that Americans are on a winning team, and this sense of being #1 is part of their national psyche! Therefore it certainly seems that Americans feel very superior. "Humility" and "America" are not two words you find together that often.

I know I am generalizing here, but this is basically a thread about generalizations. I am not trying to insult anyone, but this is what I really percieve to be what a lot of people think. I know there are millions of Americans out there who believe they are priviledged to be part of such a wonderful country and don't feel superior....but that is not the overwhelming image Americans project through their media. I think the rest of the world is pretty sick and tired of having the US agenda be front and centre all the time.

Just on a side note, have you ever seen that show "Talking to Americans" where Rick Mercer, this Canadian comedian runs around pretending to be a news reporter and telling Americans on the streets all kinds of outrageous things about Canada that they all believe....well when Americans look in the camera and proclaim "Congratulations, Canada on legalizing the stapler!" and "Congratulations Canada on joining North America!" and "Congratulations Canada on getting 24 hour time!" you can't help but have a soft spot for their friendly enthusiasm while also being totally horrified.....Americans are certainly a demonstrative and enthusiastic bunch.....
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