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Old 12-08-2002, 10:22 PM   #46
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Ya i know my question is out of curiosity!

I bet alot of people want Bush to be removed from office too. But do we do it for no reason? No? It seems to me that the US has been saying alot lately that they know Iraq has weapons of mass destruction. Why instead of making accustaions do they not tell us how they are so sure. And if they are not able to tell why they think this they should keep their mouths shut until they can. If Iraq came out and said something about the US and said they cant tell us why they think this way they would be brushed off.

I believe the US is a disliked country. They are not only disliked for their forgien ploicy but for their control of economies and that they are a very rich country. My cuontry, Canada, seems that they hate the fact that the US has so much control over our economy. It personally pisses me off. They control alot of the oil we produce and them going into Iraq is going to hurt alot of livelyhoods. Jealousy is another factor. As much as alot of people dont say it it is a factor. I myself isnt jealous of the US because i have zero intrest in being an American, but many peolpe see the money and the lifestyles and want that. The American dream, when in actuallity there really isnt an American dream there is a American Reality, which is that they are like the rest of us. Some live in poverty and live in dangerous cities.

What some around here will never understand is what it feels like not to be American. There are tow types of people, those who want to be American and those who would go to any lenghts not to be American. If you are to tell me that many peolpe dont like you country then you are blind. In comparision i would think the Americans ranks lower then UK, Canada, Italy, France, Germany. Instead of trying to convince yourselves that everyone loves you start trying to figure out why many people dont like you. Yes, Sting, more then 50% like you but ask yourself the question of the others that dont and try to answer the question of WHY.
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Old 12-09-2002, 04:57 PM   #47
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Bonoman,

I have asked the question "why", and I totally disagree with most of their reasons for not liking America. If emmigration and multi-culturalism are factors on who people like more, I would say the USA is ahead of the UK, Canada, France, Italy, Germany. Guess what language over 1 Billion people are currently attempting to learn as a second language? English. I'd say the USA has more to do with that than its English speaking friends combined.

The US government does not control the economy, US business and US consumers do. Just because individual US businesses are successful in foreign countries or because are vast number of US consumers choose not to buy your product is not a reason to dislike America.

The only people hurt in Canada by a US liberation of Iraq will be those that are in the Canadian Oil business. Liberation of Iraq will most likely after a few years lead to more Iraqi oil on the world market bringing the Global price of Oil down. Most Canadian consumers will benefit from a cheaper oil price. Americans will benefit in the same way and will have more dollars to spend on Canadian products and services if they choose to. Another plus for Canada.

The USA knows Iraq has weapons of Mass Destruction because the inspectors said they did back in 1998 when they were forced to leave Iraq.

IT is very important to realize that it is not incumbent on the USA to prove that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, it is incumbent on Iraq to prove that they do not have weapons of mass destruction. They have failed to do this, and Saddam is now attempting to hide his weapons and trick the UN into believing he has no weapons. It is not only naive but also dangerous to assume that Saddam Hussain does not have weapons of mass destruction.

Another reason why specific and technical proof has not been presented by the USA is that it could compromise the type of intelligence used in gaining access to this info. It would be foolish to perhaps loose this excellant intelligence capability to simply satisfy those that believe Saddam's word. Not saying this is indeed the case, just another possible reason.

Remember, Iraq is in violation of 16 United Nations resolutions passed under chapter 7 rules. These are extreme violations. The whole issue of Iraq's invasion of Kuwait has yet to be fully settled. From a legal standpoint, Iraq is in violation of the Gulf War ceacefire, which means the United Nations is legally at war with Iraq. This is not some casual situation that any party can just brush aside. This is a serious situation.
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Old 12-09-2002, 05:10 PM   #48
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Originally posted by STING2
I have asked the question "why", and I totally disagree with most of their reasons for not liking America.
I thought this thread was about the trend that can be noticed that the US it's popularity in the world is declining?

not whether the reasons why this is so are valid
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Old 12-09-2002, 05:41 PM   #49
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Yes Salome what i want to say is similar. Sting you have asked the question why. I have you given the answers to why some Albertans in Canada do not like your country. These are no wholely my views. You must stop trying to defend why they are not valid rahter then accept them as somelses opinion and move on. Everytiem i post something you seem to attack me. Maybe not but that is how it seems.

But i must say your comments on why everyone wants to learn the English language is so obsurd. I actually laughed out loud. Has it ever occured to you that people want to learn English because it is the language of Business. has it ever occured to you that most first world countries know english. I give you another example of why people dont like america, for comments such like that.

All i am saying about Saddam is this. Why does the US govt say these things if they know they cant disclose their sources of some of the comments. I know they cant disclose them, and i dont want them to disclose them. But dont say it then. We all have a pretty good idea that Iraq has WMD, you dont need to keep repeating it. I actually, probably to your astonishment, think going into Iraq is a very valid thing to do. I do however think a coalition should be formed and all peace roads must be walked. We've given them 16 chances whats the harm in one more.

Sting you have this idea that anytime someone has a differing point of view it is wrong. Please dont think this. A differing point of view is sometimes just as right to you, its just right to another person. Like when Bush said: You are with us or againist us" no i'm with you but just in have a different point of view on how to solve the problem.
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Old 12-09-2002, 06:19 PM   #50
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Bonoman,

Just because I respond to your posts does not mean I'm attacking you. This is FREE YOUR MIND, and everyone here has the right to debate a differing point of view from their own. If someone here believes that something is wrong they have every right to state it.

If you actually understood a little better what I was saying with my English language comment, perhaps you wouldn't think it was absurd. I was not refering to the first world at all. Did it ever occur to why English is the language of business? Have you asked everyone who is currently learning English why they are learning English? Oh no, it would be impossible that someone might learn English because they like America. Simply put, your grand assumptions in this regard, are equally funny.

The USA says these things about Iraq because we first have to have the support of the US people to do something about Iraq and second we would like to have the support of the international community. There are many people out there that don't believe Iraq has weapons of mass destruction. They use their influence to try and block UN support for the US proposed resolutions on Iraq.

Yes we have passed 16 resolutions all of which Iraq has failed to comply with. Whats the point in passing another one given the past history?

Everyone here has an opinion and I'm for everyone expressing their opinion even if it conflicts with other peoples opinion.
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Old 12-09-2002, 07:47 PM   #51
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I think I have an opinion...LOL

Everyone has a boss....
The Boss theoretically has to lead the company....
The Boss has to make decisions that effect the emplyees of the company....
Some people like the boss....
Others do not....

Sometimes the boss makes popular decisions.....
Sometimes the boss does not.....

No matter what the boss decides....someone is usually unhappy with the decisions....

Sometimes the boss takes too long to make changes....
Sometimes the boss is too slow to make them....
Sometimes the boss makes decisions on bad information.


It seems that we (Americans) are still scratching our asses now that the cold war is over. Everything was so much easier then. We had the East and the West. It was clear who and what we stood for and against.

Our presidents (bosses) have let us down for the past 13 years. We have not learned to adapt to a world without competing superpowers. President Bush #1 did not pay attention to us domestically. President Clinton, did nothing to adapt our intelligence (FBI, CIA) to make it an effective post Cold War organization to protect us. Not to mention, in the eyes of many of us he was a disgrace to the office of the Presidency. The current President Bush is viewed to have been a president that somehow cheated to win the election. In the eyes of the world, he is asking the world to go to war, without providing "SOLID" evidence that it is necessary.

I believe that September 11 has so drastically affected our mindsets, that it has truly hurt opportunities to help others. We are as a country more worried about security than we are worried about the plight of Ethiopia. We are as a country more likely to want to spend money stregthening our own military than to help forgive the debt of thrid world nations.

Our mindsets, are in a different place from that of the world. We thought we were safe. We thought our children were safe. When that changed many of the causes that people speak so passionately of here suffer.

One thing we as Americans value more than anything is safety. The number one concern of parents that send children to school is not their education. It is their safety.

We need a president/government that can lead us into a world where we are not just a superpower full of might and the will to use it. We need a governement, that can lead, but demonstrate a shared partnership in the world. Maybe then, we can look at the polls, and see that everyone is happy with the Boss. Until then, the shadow of the cold war and Sept. 11 will be in the way.


Thanks for reading my rambling.

Peace
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Old 12-09-2002, 07:50 PM   #52
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A truly great post, Dreadsox.

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Old 12-09-2002, 07:58 PM   #53
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That was good Dreadsox!
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Old 12-09-2002, 08:43 PM   #54
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Originally posted by STING2
US Foreign Policy is formed to insure the security and interest of the United States and global community. Foreign opinion is looked at and taking into consideration. But the fact that a majority in a particular country oppose it or disagree with it on certain issues is not going to stop the USA from doing what it feels is right, necessary, and in the best interest of the USA and the global community.
With all due respect STING2, this statement of yours pretty much summarize what this thread is all about, when it comes to so-called Americans receiving feeback about the way they are perceived by the so-called rest of the world inhabitants. In fact you dont. You dont receive any feeback no matter what people say...what leads me to think of one of these two...or you are all blind and deaf or you live in the moon, actually.
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Old 12-09-2002, 09:05 PM   #55
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You dont receive any feeback no matter what people say...what leads me to think of one of these two...or you are all blind and deaf or you live in the moon, actually.

With all due respect....

Its statements like this that make the US so much more likely to give two cents about your opinion.

Again, the US is going to act in its best interests as Sting has mentioned. I sincerely hope the leaders of my country do not decide to govern based on polls of public opinion from other countries. That said I also hope that adjustments can be made to bring us back to the place we were 60 years ago in the eyes of the world.


As I tried to point out in my post, Security is our number one priority of this country. It is amazing to many of us Americans how many of our "friends" in the world have not been supportive of our country since 9/11.


We, America, have lacked leadership to move beyond the Cold War. Then 9/11. Our priorities, which should have been changed in the past 13 years, have not. 9/11 will further delay the movement from superpower to world partnership. The percieved lack of international support that the citizens of my country see, will continue to delay any move in that direction.


How quickly many nations forget the good that the US has done for other countries. This does not change the fact that we have made mistakes, nor do the mistakes negate the good we have done. Unfortunately, it seems like we live in a
"What have you done for me lately?" world.
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Old 12-09-2002, 09:09 PM   #56
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
We need a president/government that can lead us into a world where we are not just a superpower full of might and the will to use it. We need a governement, that can lead, but demonstrate a shared partnership in the world. Maybe then, we can look at the polls, and see that everyone is happy with the Boss. Until then, the shadow of the cold war and Sept. 11 will be in the way.
excellent post dreadsox.
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Old 12-09-2002, 09:27 PM   #57
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Dreadsox,

In my point of view your government has the right to do whatever they think its best and right for your people an so has mine. Only that. Please stop with these for "the good of mankind, free world, global community" stuff. Its getting old and that poll is a fair feedback for you. Again, in my point of view.
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Old 12-09-2002, 10:23 PM   #58
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How the hell can you say that the rest of the world hasnt been suportive? I can speak of my own country and i know Canada has been suportive. We gave you troops in Afganistan, we were one of the first to offer help. How can you say we havent been suportive when you dont even live in any of these countries. Ya you could say CNN hasnt shown me your support but i guarentee you that the rest of the world that are not extremeist are on your side. Iraq and terror are something different IMO. though they are both evil and pose threats i have seen no evidence linking them.

You dont know enough about the town and cities in the rest of the world to make such a braod statement. That is the sort of statement that makes me shake my head. You can certainly do as you please. But please give us the right to make our own minds up. Security is your #1 issue not everyone elses.
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Old 12-09-2002, 11:48 PM   #59
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Bonoman,

You don't know enough about "Dreadsox" to conclude that he doesn't know enough about towns and cities of other countries. Lets try to stick to the debate instead of making personal assumptions about other people.

Follower,

The Poll is fine, but it must be understood that most people in that current Poll still have a favorable view of the USA. The USA does strive to work with the global community and using terms like "global community" are just fine.

As to my statement, I certainly stick by it and I am aware of how other people percieve the USA. I have listened to criticism and examined others idea's and alternative solutions. I strongly disagree with them and feel that in general we are on the right track in Foreign Policy for the USA and global community.

Although we have been to the Moon, we don't live there, yet. Were not blind or deaf either. No one has eyes and ears as good as the US intelligence community overall.
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Old 12-10-2002, 05:54 AM   #60
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Follower,

The Poll is fine, but it must be understood that most people in that current Poll still have a favorable view of the USA. The USA does strive to work with the global community and using terms like "global community" are just fine.

As to my statement, I certainly stick by it and I am aware of how other people percieve the USA. I have listened to criticism and examined others idea's and alternative solutions. I strongly disagree with them and feel that in general we are on the right track in Foreign Policy for the USA and global community.

Although we have been to the Moon, we don't live there, yet. Were not blind or deaf either. No one has eyes and ears as good as the US intelligence community overall.
Thanks STING2, that seems to be an earnest answer from you, at least. Just having in mind that no one can be right 100% of the time would do the trick IMO. Thats what that poll and some people here are telling you about your foreign policy.

And just to clarify things we use that expression here, something like one is blind and deaf or lives in the world of moon, when that individual seems to loose contact with reality. Its not in any way meant to be offensive.
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