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Old 12-05-2002, 10:14 PM   #16
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I'm from Spain and here, and probably in the rest of Europe, we have a MAJOR problem with US. The problem is GEORGE BUSH. We usually identificate the republican policy with War, proteccionist foreing policy or whatever. In other words, with Bill Clinton the "problems" with US policy was lower.

Vox!!
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Old 12-05-2002, 10:28 PM   #17
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alright gather around u little bitches..

ok.
Ive had it.
Listen up,little bitches here's the deal -ya

Forget about the polls.
Leadership has nothing to do w polls.
Leadership has to do w courage and moral conviction.

I suppose if we had snap-shot polls thru out history..-

-polls woulda called Winston Churchill a bafoon at the time he uttered the historical phrase-"NEVER NEVER GIVE UP".and went on to win the battle.
-If you think so much of polls, most ppl favor Pop music over U2 music-whats up w that?

Cowards worship polls.
Leaders w conviction disregard them.

If courage is too expensive for you..I offer no apologies.

Diamond

Peace.
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Old 12-05-2002, 10:36 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zoomerang96
anyone else find an uncanny resemblance between sting2 and achtung bubba?

...and al gore?
Oh, get over it deathbeer. Go write some radiohead threads or something. Weirdo.
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Old 12-06-2002, 01:04 AM   #19
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Vox02
The problem is GEORGE BUSH. We usually identificate the republican policy with War

YET.....

A Democrat was in office when the US entered World War I

A Democrat was in office when the US entered World War II

A Democrat was in office when the US entered the Korean Conflict

A Democrat was in office when US involvement in Vietnam escalated from "advisor" to active combatant.

Not to mention, it was a Democrat who gave birth to that "global friendship consortium" known as the CIA.

with Bill Clinton the "problems" with US policy was lower.

It could be argued that Clinton's failure to make Iraq comply with UN resolutions, coupled with his refusal to take bin Laden when the opportunity presented itself has led us to the problems that face the Bush administration.
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Old 12-06-2002, 02:50 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
Are Oil companies interested in cheap Oil, NO. They want to either have high Oil prices or at the very least have and Oil price thats at the market equilibrium and not below it.
So, given this, what oil company in their right mind would rush to pump out all of Iraq's oil? None. Why would they engage in practices that would undermine their own bottom line? I'm not suggesting that American companies would increase Iraqi oil production after they had access to the resources. More than likely they would just keep the supply relatively steady. As you said yourself, Iraq is pumping and selling a fair amount of oil already.
Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
Iraq is already selling a lot of its oil on the market through the UN approved program for humanitarian assistance.
So American oil companies wouldn't need to pump out more oil. If they keep the supply steady they can keep market levels where they are now make a nice profit. Is this not a feasible hypothetical situation?

It's easy to say my ideas are just wild conspiracy theories. You never did answer my question, though. Do you think with all of their ties to Big Oil that the members of the Bush Administration that I mentioned would do anything to harm the American oil and gas industry? If so, why? They certainly haven't done so in their domestic policy.
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Old 12-06-2002, 06:04 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Danospano


The individuals who said this have every right, just as Americans do in wanting to kill thousands of Iraqi civilians in the name of justice. It goes both ways.


It is sooooooo easy to make statements like this. I have yet to talk to a single person who believes it is good to kill thousands of Iraqi citizens. Do you have a poll to back this (ADJECTIVE DELETED) statement.

Please show me any statement by President Bush or his government that come close to characterizing the governement as wanting to kill thousands of civilians.

Six months ago on this board people were whining that the governement was not acting through the United Nations. Surprise surprise.......GW has acted through the UN.

Now they are whining because the inspectors quite possibly might find violations and lead to war.

Peace
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Old 12-06-2002, 06:06 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Bama


Oh, get over it deathbeer. Go write some radiohead threads or something. Weirdo.
Bama baby!!!!!

I love you! In a hetero kinda way!!!!!

Not that there is anything wrong with that!!!!

Peace Brother!
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Old 12-06-2002, 06:10 AM   #23
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Clark W. Griswold, Jr
Quote:

It could be argued that Clinton's failure to make Iraq comply with UN resolutions, coupled with his refusal to take bin Laden when the opportunity presented itself has led us to the problems that face the Bush administration.
One of the most true statements made ever!!!!!!


PEACE
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Old 12-06-2002, 12:43 PM   #24
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dreadsox, you sound like a little boy thats about to get 10 dollars from his grandfather.

i am constantly amused that only americans are defending american policy here, at this forum.

how many of you can locate where winnipeg, manitoba is? do you know the capitol of canada? do you know the capitol of china?

its no secret at all that the american general public has no idea of what goes on outside their own home. living 5 miles away from the us border, i see it all the time. attending an american university, i heard it all the time.

"its really cold up there, EH?" ya, its two hours north of here, its way colder there....

naturally theyre right though, cause of their wonderful democratic TWO PARTY system which is for pure comical relief.

two 's up for a system that cant even count its own ballots AND elects a cowboy with oil ties who didnt even get the most votes! thats democracy! way to go!

this elitist attitude your country holds while it shits on everyone else will only get you into further trouble. you cannot shoot your way out of everything.

"if your not with us, your against us" - dubya

trust me george, there are a LOT of us that are against you.
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Old 12-06-2002, 03:29 PM   #25
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the fact that US doesnt see why its not liked kind of epitomises what we're talking about...
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Old 12-06-2002, 03:51 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by cloudimani
the fact that US doesnt see why its not liked kind of epitomises what we're talking about...
precisely. its like communicating with a wall. and not some super-computerized wall that communicates. oh no...definately not. just an ordinary wall. yup.
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Old 12-06-2002, 04:49 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
Interesting to note that many of the countries with an unfavorable view of the USA also said that suicide bombing of innocent civilians is a justifiable defense of Islam. hmmmm real smart those people must be.

Most Germans, 53%, have a positive view of US foreign Policy! Looks like German citizens may understand a thing or two about foreign policy after all, unlike are friends to the North.
You say that many of the countries with an unfavorable view support sucide bombing when in actuality you can only find one other country that doesnt support sucide boming that like americans. What about the other countries they dont like you. It says in the report that several countries that support sucide bombing dont like you. And remember not any of these countries, with the execption of Iraq and maybe Palestine, support bombing. Face the facts Sting the world doesnt like your country. Please answer this: What would ever convince you that the world doesnt like your country?

Or when the whole world says they dont like your country would you pick out one person that likes america and use them as the bases for your claim?
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Old 12-06-2002, 04:56 PM   #28
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Americans are very, very selfish. Most of the people I know don't give a goddamn about anyone outside of American borders. People need to wake up and realize that in this high tech world, any decision taken by the U.S. is going to affect the entire planet. While it is a good thing to improve our country, we have to take into consideration the effect on the rest of the world, and this selfishness is why other countries don't like us.

Personally I think the american oil companies DO want free access to Iraqi oil, because if we have an abundance of fuel there will be much less pressure to develop alternate energy sources, which would probably be the death of the oil business.
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Old 12-06-2002, 09:29 PM   #29
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ThatGuy,

American consumers already have access to some Iraqi Oil. Not as much as they did though before 1990. American Oil Companies may eventually try to get into the market of Iraqi Oil but there is no real need to plus there will be competition from Iraq's own companies and foreign companies as well. In addition, its a mistake to assume that there is simply one Oil Company in America. There are multiple oil companies that have stiff competition with each other. I do not know exactly what American companies will do if Iraq is liberated from Saddam Hussian but things will most likely resemble the situation back in the 1980s. Some American companies will attempt to do business in the area just as they have done in the past and just like every foreign oil company on the planet will do.

But are concern with middle east oil is not to give US oil Companies a new place to drill or buy up foreign companies, but to make sure that there is foreign supply and foreign competition against US companies to keep the Global price of oil down! Bush is more concerned about a low oil price especially at this time because of the economic health of the country. Higher oil prices over the long run will insure further economic problems for the country and prevent George Bush from being re-elected.

One of the best ways for Bush to get re-elected is to bring the price of oil down. Energy consumes a significant amount of the average Americans budget and in these muddled economic times, a below market equilibrium price for Oil could fire up the economy. But these changes take time.

One of the USA's most important National Security objective over the last 60 years has been to make sure that Persian Gulf oil supply was secure. Doing so has been a delicate process because of the middle east turbulant history.

In 1979/1980, Jimmy Carter warned the Soviet Union after its invasion of Afghanistan that any Soviet move towards the Persian Gulf would initiate an immediate US response which "could" include the use of Nuclear Weapons. My point is that the USA has for decades had a very strong defense policy in regards to Persian Gulf and Middle East Oil since it makes up 75% of the worlds known reserves of Oil. Middle East Oil effects everyone on the planet period. The point I'm making with this is that the Bush administration is simply carrying out policies in the middle east that we have had for decades, regardless of the President being Democrat or Republican. US foreign policy in the middle east is not designed to make US oil companies richer, its designed to help insure foreign competition and foreign supply of oil on the global market, so that consumers won't have to pay a high cost for their energy which could cause severe damage for the economy.

To more specifically answer your questions, no oil company is going to rush into Iraq wants we liberate it unless they feel they can profit from such a move. Saddam Hussian has been occasionally restricting oil supplies because he can only sell it through the United Nations for Humanitarian supplies. While Iraq has the worlds second largest reserves of Oil, the amount of Iraqi Oil on the global market is a smaller fraction of the total than it was in 1990. A liberated Iraq will probably be resume the same pumping capacity that it had before 1990 as a percentage of the global total. This extra supply will of course drop the price of oil worldwide which is not really in the interest of the oil companies. It certainly would not make since for them to move operations into Iraq to pump more of this oil. Setting up new plant and highering new workers is expensive. There really is no economic incentive for American companies to rush in and set up in Iraq. Some in the Oil Industry are clearly dreading in an economic sense, Bush's move into Iraq, because clearly Iraqi Oil will become a stronger player on the market, driving the price of oil down. Market levels never remain completely steady and a sudden move into Iraq by American Oil companies would be expensive and is not really in their profit interest.

Middle East Policy and more particular Persian Gulf Policy is about ensuring the safety of the supply of oil that is there. That supply keeps oil prices down. The motivivation for being involved in the region is the economic health of the United States and the planet, not a few Oil Companies that supported the Bush Administration. Those US Oil Companies don't benefit from foreign competition and Foreign Supply.

Bush enjoys the money he recieves from the Oil Companies but the Oil Companies cannot win re-election for him. Only the consumer who puts gas in his car and heats his home every winter can do that. Consumers bottom line is most influenced by how much they have to pay for energy. The more they pay for energy, the less they spend on things in the American economy. When that happens, unemployment goes up, businesses close down, and people start to struggle and get angery. Once that happens for any reason, come election time, the President gets dumped. George Bush does not want that. Bush wants a healthy economy and one way to do that is insure peace and stability in the middle east and get more of that Iraqi Oil on the market. Once the average American consumer is happy then Bush can try to do something for his Oil Buddies.

Domestically things may be a different situation. But when it comes to foreign policy, its about aiding the US consumer and the US and global economy, not aiding the Oil and Gas business.
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Old 12-06-2002, 10:08 PM   #30
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Bonoman,

I still don't understand what your saying here:

"It says in the report that several countries that support sucide bombing dont like you. And remember not any of these countries, with the execption of Iraq and maybe Palestine, support bombing."

I know several countries in the report that don't like us also support suicide bombing. The second sentence there contradicts your first sentence.

The whole world has not said they hate America. The poll shows that the majority still has a favorable(50% or more) opinion of America. The number of Russians that have a favorable opinion of America has more than doubled in only the past two years.

You've not shown any facts to support your view that more than 50% of the worlds population hates America. But hey, continue to believe and speculate all you want.
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