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Old 01-06-2004, 05:42 AM   #16
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Originally posted by Basstrap
I know there are lots of ppl here who hate Moore...but I can't help think about his theory of fear and paranoia

the US isn't the only country to be struck by terrorism, yet, as far as I know, they are the only ones to fingerprint.
(besides for Brazil who seem to be doing it out of spite)
is it because of a culture of fear?
Culture of fear ? It is hard to see that USA turned from a land of hope en positive into a land of fear and manupalation. Bin laden has won,...


I never thought that the DDR would be a model for the new brave world, including statsi and walls,....
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Old 01-06-2004, 06:46 AM   #17
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I'm having trouble to believe you can stop terrorists (I'm guessing they are the main target of actions like these) who are willing to give up their own lives by taking their fingerprints at the airport

paranoia-cha-cha-cha
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Old 01-06-2004, 12:14 PM   #18
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the government has no safetyguards in place pre 9/11... it's asleep at the wheel and they should have done more

the government puts safetyguards in place post 9/11... it's driving fear and paranoia and they're doing too much

what the hell exactly do you want? would the fingerprinting, orange alerts, blah blah blah etc. etc. etc. have stopped 9/11 from happening? maybe... might not have, but maybe it would've discouraged it from happening. maybe isn't a sure thing, but it's a hell of a lot better than no.

and again... we've yet to have an attack on american soil since 9/11... so something's working... and God willing that something will continue to work, 'cause i don't want to go to any more funerals
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Old 01-06-2004, 01:19 PM   #19
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Originally posted by Bunbury


Well Canadians and European people aren't the ones that have caused terrorist attacks against the US in the last decade, so I can see why the US would be more suspicious of some nationalities more than others.
That's the biggest load of crap I've ever heard. You don't think there are people who now live in these European countries or Canada that still don't have ties to their origin of birth? A terrorist could have citizenship in one these countries for the past 10 years of so and come here and pose as a tourist. If you're going to fingerprint, fingerprint them all. So now when the next terrorist attack happens and they realize it was implemented by someone with citizenship in Europe then we'll fingerprint them. So only after someone attacks us we'll fingerprint them? This logic makes absolutely no sense.
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Old 01-06-2004, 01:59 PM   #20
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That's the biggest load of crap I've ever heard. You don't think there are people who now live in these European countries or Canada that still don't have ties to their origin of birth? A terrorist could have citizenship in one these countries for the past 10 years of so and come here and pose as a tourist. If you're going to fingerprint, fingerprint them all. So now when the next terrorist attack happens and they realize it was implemented by someone with citizenship in Europe then we'll fingerprint them. So only after someone attacks us we'll fingerprint them? This logic makes absolutely no sense.
Exactly.

And keep in mind, Bunbury, once again, that we've had people right here in our own country commit terrorist acts (Timothy McVeigh, the Unabomber). So should we start fingerprinting every white male in this country?

Any nationality is likely to harbor terrorists, we shouldn't be suspecting just a few. Like Rono said, Bin Laden has won, he's made us paranoid.

Headache, we definitely agree our government should do something. If they hear of any terrorist organizations being set up anywhere in the world, they should go after those people only. If they hear of any terrorists planning something, they should stop those people beforehand once they get the details of who's involved and everything (it also might help if we hadn't supported some of these terrorist regimes in the past, as well-something the U.S. should learn from).

But we shouldn't be fingerprinting people, most of whom are innocent and wouldn't dream of hurting anybody. And if we must fingerprint, then we should be fingerprinting everyone, not exempting certain countries.

For crying out loud, when people like the Arabs see us exempting Canadians and Europeans, who are white, from things like this, that only makes them angrier with us. They see it as racist, and it allows for wannabe terrorists to continue to gain support against us Americans. Do we want these people to hate us for all eternity?

Angela
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Old 01-06-2004, 03:57 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
the government has no safetyguards in place pre 9/11... it's asleep at the wheel and they should have done more

the government puts safetyguards in place post 9/11... it's driving fear and paranoia and they're doing too much
well, personally I don't think any government could have prevented 9/11 from happening from the moment that hatred towards the US in other parts of the world went beyond a certain point

I still have a very hard time believing anyone could think that you could really stop any terrorist by fingerprinting at the airport
I have a lot less trouble believing Moonlit_Angel that this could even fuel the hatred a bit in Arab countries


it may not have been the objective to feed paranoia,
but that really is the only thing I can imagine that will be achieved
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Old 01-06-2004, 04:03 PM   #22
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Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel

Canadians and Europeans, who are white

Angela


some of us are french though.
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Old 01-07-2004, 12:15 AM   #23
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For a country that is one of the most free open societies around the world I don't see the big deal for this country to protect it's borders as much as possible.
I'm all for it.
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Old 01-07-2004, 12:35 AM   #24
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Shouldn't you clamour for even more then and include everyone?

And can someone clarify, lets take the stereotype here that it is muslims and middle eastern folks in particular this is hoping to weed out, what if a band of them come from Canada or Australia and attempt a terrorist attack this way? They're exempt? Or is this just more of the profiling that is causing so much controversy?

If it were to be fair, yes there is an issue with extremists from middle eastern countries who are more prone to commit these attacks, and they must be watched, weeded out, prevented from causing harm. But with such an unknown quantity, you can't seperate a few. The net must be cast in entirety, not selectively. This will achieve next to nothing iof you are going to close off some possibilities and leave gaping holes in other areas. Make it all or nothing.
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Old 01-07-2004, 12:37 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
Shouldn't you clamour for even more then and include everyone?

And can someone clarify, lets take the stereotype here that it is muslims and middle eastern folks in particular this is hoping to weed out, what if a band of them come from Canada or Australia and attempt a terrorist attack this way? They're exempt? Or is this just more of the profiling that is causing so much controversy?

If it were to be fair, yes there is an issue with extremists from middle eastern countries who are more prone to commit these attacks, and they must be watched, weeded out, prevented from causing harm. But with such an unknown quantity, you can't seperate a few. The net must be cast in entirety, not selectively. This will achieve next to nothing iof you are going to close off some possibilities and leave gaping holes in other areas. Make it all or nothing.
.

Angela
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Old 01-07-2004, 08:37 PM   #26
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Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel
But we shouldn't be fingerprinting people, most of whom are innocent and wouldn't dream of hurting anybody. And if we must fingerprint, then we should be fingerprinting everyone, not exempting certain countries.

For crying out loud, when people like the Arabs see us exempting Canadians and Europeans, who are white, from things like this, that only makes them angrier with us. They see it as racist, and it allows for wannabe terrorists to continue to gain support against us Americans. Do we want these people to hate us for all eternity?

Angela

Absolutely. Expecting Arabic countries to be "more" likely to produce terrorists is ridiculous. Terrorism, unfortunately, is universal. The Shoe-Bomber came from our closest ally, the U.K. Yes, some Arabs are terrorists. Most are not. These exemptions aren't fair. Either fingerprint everyone or don't do it at all.
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Old 01-07-2004, 10:53 PM   #27
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Absolutely. Expecting Arabic countries to be "more" likely to produce terrorists is ridiculous. Terrorism, unfortunately, is universal. The Shoe-Bomber came from our closest ally, the U.K. Yes, some Arabs are terrorists. Most are not. These exemptions aren't fair. Either fingerprint everyone or don't do it at all.
. Thank you.

Angela
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Old 01-09-2004, 07:25 AM   #28
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3378057.stm

Looks like they'll be fingerprinting everyone unless they have a visa, then.
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Old 01-09-2004, 02:34 PM   #29
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Apparently if you're a UK citizen and want to visit the US after October, you either need a passport with fingerprint and iris recognition info (which isn't even available in the UK) or you need to go to the US embassy in person (ie if you live in Aberdeen, you still have to make the 1000 mile + round trip to London), have a face-to-face interview there and pay 67 for the privilege! Hmmm.
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Old 01-09-2004, 04:39 PM   #30
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
Apparently if you're a UK citizen and want to visit the US after October, you either need a passport with fingerprint and iris recognition info (which isn't even available in the UK) or you need to go to the US embassy in person (ie if you live in Aberdeen, you still have to make the 1000 mile + round trip to London), have a face-to-face interview there and pay 67 for the privilege! Hmmm.
From what I understand, you don't NEED the visa, but people travelling on a UK passport will be photographed and fingerprinted when they arrive in the US. I guess this is applying to ALL of the visa waiver countries now?
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