The UN voted against us....Gee I'm SHOCKED!

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AchtungBono

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In a unanimous(sp?) decision, the UN general assembly passed a vote calling for us to dismantle the security fence that helps protect us from suicide bombers.

Gee, do you think that their next vote will be to elect Osama Bin Laden as Secretary-General with Saddam Hussein as his deputy?

*rolls eyes*
 
AchtungBono:
150 yes, 6 against
in the resolution they also mentioned that Israel has the right of self defense.

But of course they must all be terrorist supporters because they don't think it was a good idea of mr. sharon to build the fence in the territory of palestine instead of their own territory.
And of course they obviousely must be terrorist friends because they ask Israel to compensate the innocent victims of their destruction
 
AchtungBono said:
Gee, do you think that their next vote will be to elect Osama Bin Laden as Secretary-General with Saddam Hussein as his deputy?
nah, I don't think they'll do that
 
I repeat it is not simply a fence built on "Palestinian" territory many sections go beyond the pre-'67 borders because it has to protect the Israeli Settlements and the infrastructure that supports them, they have as much right to live without fear of terrorism as any other Israeli civilian. This whole UN debacle is a total crock designed to chalk one more "violates international law" and "disregards UN resolutions" for the Palestinians to use to divert attention away from the evil that they produce. Blaming Israel for putting a fence to peacefully protect her citizens from Arab Bombers is the same as Blaming a Rape Victim who then goes on to carry mace as means defence.

The United Nations is the biggest hive of scum and villainy on the planet, I have absolutely no respect for them from their Zionism is Racism up to their appointment of Libya as head of a Human Rights comittee the United Nations has done nothing to furthur peace in the Middle East or around the globe, they have absolutely no real authority to force countries to comply in the rare cases where they condemn those that deserve condemnation and this costs a lot of lives. The world would be a lot better off if every country was kicked out of the United Nations General Assembly until they can prove that they are a pluralist liberal democracy then you could actually have a solid chance at maintaining peace. They had a chance to show the UN was a legitimate organization in the post Cold War 1990's however the failures of Rwanda, Somalia and the former Yugoslavia are the three crutial strikes against the UN as a functioning forum for the worlds ills in my book. The concept is noble and I know that it works when every actor is civilized but as it stands it is a corrupt and hypocritical organization that betrays the true liberal vision of a great collection of nations that inspired it.

I am truly proud that my government voted against the resolution and did not become party to this ritual condemning of Israel, Alan Dershowitz was totally right when he said that Israel is the Jew among Nations as it is castigated and ostracised for peacefully protecting its civilians and ensuring its ongoing existance and doing it humanly without loosing its freedoms in the face of ongoing Arab agression. Long live the Jews and let us hope that the international community will come to its senses and work to bring liberty and freedom to all people of the world.
 
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A classic quote from Israeli UN ambassador Dan Gillerman.
"Mr President, allow me to start with a vote of thanks. Thank God that the fate of Israel and of the Jewish people is not decided in this hall."
He hit the nail on the head.

Those that voted against this UNacceptable resolution are as follows. Israel, United States Federated States of Micronesia, Marshall Islands, Palau and Australia, (One drink for every time the UN condems Israel and 5 or more for when >5 countries vote against them).

Aussie government starts voting against terrorism, barrier is proving to be a massive success at fighting terrorism nonviolently and the worlds richest terrorist has serious problems maintaining his regime, Cause for a celebration :up:.

One question, do people who oppose the security barrier in its current iteration also oppose the one the Saudi/Yemeni fence and the India/Pakistan one, how about Cyprus, or the USA/Mexico one, there is a useless barrier between North and South Korea and there are fences all over Europe to keep pesky immigrants out and Botswana is moving to put an electric fence in place between it and Zimbabwe. We cannot stand by while all these unjust fences of opression exist, if we condemn one we must condemn all, UN, Tear Down All These Walls
/sarcasm.

In addition to these developments the UN has moved 1/3rd of its foreign workers out of Gaza and to, of all places, Jerusalem :)lol:, a fence is good enough to keep terrorists away from UN staff but when its there to protect Israelis its an entirely different matter). It seems that the security situation has deteriorated after UN envoy Roed-Larsen was almost kidnapped my Arab Terror - sorry - Palestinain Activists who wanted to threaten his life in an attempt to pressure the Israeli Government. It is a tragic comedy the way that the UN courts terrorists and gives them precidence over much more deserving people that do not continue to deliberatly massacre civilians (such as the Kurds and Tibetans, both people who have had no success with terrorism and because of this left to fade away under real tyranny) but to have the UN envoy make comments against Arafat thus destabalising the PA and then having to pull out workers to Jerusalem is one of the more humorous turns in this whole sorry saga.
 
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A_Wanderer:
These settlements are illegal. It's no good idea to protect illegal settlements through violating international laws and building your defense-line in your neighbours garden.

(and thats the difference to the USA/Mexican border. the US built their fence on their side of the border
 
The fact that no one else in this forum is responding to these obviously slanted and prejudicial statements toward the U.N. and without accepting the brutal and oppressive way that the state of Israel was even formed ( a war of attack to take over the land of Palestine) shows that your vicious statements full of negativity OFFER NOTHING TO HELP THE CAUSE OF INTERNATIONAL PEACE AND UNDERSTANDING. :tsk:

And international peace and understanding (let alone Justice for tens of thousands of Palestinian people forcibly removed from land that THEIR ancestors had lived on for thousands of years) are issues that U2 have held CLOSE TO THEIR HEARTS and even attempted to bring up at the Popmart concert in Tel Aviv, to a silent snub by the audience!:ohmy:

Charity and Justice must begin at home, or it does not live in your hearts. I say "NO MORE" to war, prejudice and negative posts. :down:

Offer us something POSITIVE - a solution which promotes Peace with Justice. This is what someone who professes to love and understand U2 would do. :angel: :hug:
 
I've grown so tired of it all, beyond any words. The only thing that articulates what I feel is this poem:


Temporary Poem of My Time/Yehuda Amichai (1924-2000)

Hebrew writing and Arabic writing go from east to west,
Latin writing, from west to east.
Languages are like cats:
You must not stroke their hair the wrong way.
The clouds come from the sea, the hot wind from the desert,
The trees bend in the wind,
And stones fly from all four winds,
Into all four winds. They throw stones,
Throw this land, one at the other,
But the land always falls back to the land.
They throw the land, want to get rid of it.
Its stones, its soil, but you can't get rid of it.

They throw stones, throw stones at me
In 1936, 1938, 1948, 1988,
Semites throw at Semites and anti-Semites at anti-Semites,
Evil men throw and just men throw,
Sinners throw and tempters throw,
Geologists throw and theologists throw,
Archaelogists throw and archhooligans throw,
Kidneys throw stones and gall bladders throw,
Head stones and forehead stones and the heart of a stone,
Stones shaped like a screaming mouth
And stones fitting your eyes
Like a pair of glasses,
The past throws stones at the future,
And all of them fall on the present.
Weeping stones and laughing gravel stones,
Even God in the Bible threw stones,
Even the Urim and Tumim were thrown
And got stuck in the beastplate of justice,
And Herod threw stones and what came out was a Temple.

Oh, the poem of stone sadness
Oh, the poem thrown on the stones
Oh, the poem of thrown stones.
Is there in this land
A stone that was never thrown
And never built and never overturned
And never uncovered and never discovered
And never screamed from a wall and never discarded by the builders
And never closed on top of a grave and never lay under lovers
And never turned into a cornerstone?

Please do not thorow any more stones,
You are moving tha land,
The holy, whole, open hand,
You are moving it into the sea,
And the sea doesn't want it,
The sea says, not in me.

Please throw little stones,
Throw snail fossils, throw gravel,
Justice or injustice from the quarries of Migdal Tsedek,
Throw soft stones, throw sweet clods,
Throw limestone, throw clay,
Throw sand of the seashore,
Throw dust of the desert, throw rust,
Throw soil, throw wind,
Throw air, throw nothing
Until your hands are weary
And the war is weary
And even peace will be weary and will be.


He was such a wise man and an incredibly gifted poet. There are some more translated poems of his right here
 
And maybe just another one, I really can't resist... (Sorry, don't mean this to turn into a poetry forum, but this poems are related)


Jerusalem/Yehauda Amichai

On a roof in the Old City
laundry hanging in the late afternoon sunlight.
the white sheet of a woman who is my enemy,
the towl of a man who is my enemy,
to wipe off the sweat of his brow.

In the sky of the Old City
a kite
At the other end of the string,
a child
i can't see
because of the wall.

We have put up many flags,
they have put up many flags,
to make us think that they're happy.
To make them think that we're happy.


OK, that's it, I promise.
 
Thank you, sarit! :applaud:

Let's talk of ways that we can further the cause of international peace with justice for EVERYONE.

:wink:

Those poems are BEAUTIFUL and REALLY said more than any political discourse that we could have in this forum.:up:

And I end with a paraphrase of Bono from 1987:

There's two sides to this story, and frankly, I'm sick of both of them. :bono: :heart: :heart: ;)

NO MORE to war in the world and in our hearts.:hug:
 
I have to agree with Klaus and others here who dont' like the wall, Wanderer. Yes, by all means, build a wall if that must be, and perhaps it must, but have it within '67 boarders.

Bonus points for the Star Wars quote though :wink:

A_Wanderer said:


The United Nations is the biggest hive of scum and villainy on the planet,

:)

SD
 
A_Wanderer said:
The United Nations is the biggest hive of scum and villainy on the planet

Yes, presumably that is why we hear this "UN resolutions" speeches over and over and over again. Scum and villainy, except when you've got resolutions they passed that you want to enforce. Then it's a priority the world get together and do so and anyone who doesn't respect the resolutions is a terrorist sympathizer. Talk a little out of this side of your mouth, a little out of that.
 
anitram said:


Yes, presumably that is why we hear this "UN resolutions" speeches over and over and over again. Scum and villainy, except when you've got resolutions they passed that you want to enforce. Then it's a priority the world get together and do so and anyone who doesn't respect the resolutions is a terrorist sympathizer. Talk a little out of this side of your mouth, a little out of that.

Couldn't have said it any better myself.
 
Jamila said:
The fact that no one else in this forum is responding to these obviously slanted and prejudicial statements toward the U.N. and without accepting the brutal and oppressive way that the state of Israel was even formed ( a war of attack to take over the land of Palestine) shows that your vicious statements full of negativity OFFER NOTHING TO HELP THE CAUSE OF INTERNATIONAL PEACE AND UNDERSTANDING. :tsk:

And international peace and understanding (let alone Justice for tens of thousands of Palestinian people forcibly removed from land that THEIR ancestors had lived on for thousands of years) are issues that U2 have held CLOSE TO THEIR HEARTS and even attempted to bring up at the Popmart concert in Tel Aviv, to a silent snub by the audience!:ohmy:

Charity and Justice must begin at home, or it does not live in your hearts. I say "NO MORE" to war, prejudice and negative posts. :down:

Offer us something POSITIVE - a solution which promotes Peace with Justice. This is what someone who professes to love and understand U2 would do. :angel: :hug:

Israel was the country that was attacked upon its formation in 1948, not the Palestinian area's. Israel was attacked by 5 different Arab countries on the day it was formed. It would then be attacked by Arab nations who to this day refuse to recognize Israel, in almost every decade in the last half of the 20th century. We have Palestinian youths running into disco's and Shopping Mall, TARGETING innocent women and childern.

Israel has a right to exist and was formed by people who were living in the area upon the discentigration of the Ottoman Empire following World War I.

In this situation, the only ones who "OFFER NOTHING TO HELP THE CAUSE OF INTERNATIONAL PEACE AND UNDERSTANDING" are the Palestinians who engage and support the terrorism against Israel. Where is the "NON-Violent" Palestinian movement? Name one Palestinian group that advocates "non-violence" for resolving the conflict!

Israel does what it has to do to survive in a region where they are surrounded by enemies. Israely's and descendents of Jews in Europe have this spirit of survival in them. As Hitler was slaughtering the Jews with the help or non-interference of millions of Europeans, they stood up and did the best they could to survive. Many Israely's today lived in Europe during that time or are descendents of those Jews that lived through the hell that Europe put them through in the first half of the 20th century.


U2 are not pacifist and supported the use of military force in Bosnia and Afghanistan. Just read Bill Flannagans book "Until The End Of The World" and the year end issue of HOT PRESS for 2001.

Peace and Justice are never achieved when terrorist are allowed to thrive and operate at will.


"And I end with a paraphrase of Bono from 1987:"

"There's two sides to this story, and frankly, I'm sick of both of them."

That quote of Bono is about the war in Northern Ireland, not the Israely/Palestinian issue or any other issue for that matter.
 
As far as the fence goes, it is saving lives, which is something that much of the world seems to forget. Israel has every right to defend itself, and if need be send its military into Palestinian area's or if need be, neighboring countries that harbor terrorist.

Where the fence currently is could be the final border for any settlement. Until there is a final settlement, claims that the fence is built on "Palestinian land" here and there are not accurate.



As far as the resolution goes, lets remember it was passed under CHAPTER VI rules of the United Nations, which only allow enforcement through negotiation. Resolutions passed against Saddam's Iraq are much more serious as they are passed under Chapter VII rules of the United Nations which allow the use of military force as a means of enforcement of the resolution.
 
I hope you have all read Exodus by Leon Uris
it is a beautiful fiction book about the israel/palestine struggle with a lot of accurate history

what they endured on their first day of independance is horrid...and miraculous that they weren't all killed.
 
Jamila said:
Thank you, sarit! :applaud:

Let's talk of ways that we can further the cause of international peace with justice for EVERYONE.

:wink:

Those poems are BEAUTIFUL and REALLY said more than any political discourse that we could have in this forum.:up:

And I end with a paraphrase of Bono from 1987:

There's two sides to this story, and frankly, I'm sick of both of them. :bono: :heart: :heart: ;)

NO MORE to war in the world and in our hearts.:hug:

A. Men. Thank you (nice quote from Bono, too-sums up pretty nicely how I feel about this whole ordeal).

Angela
 
The Zionists have always and will always slant history to fit their ever-changing viewpoints.

When the U.N. passes a resolution they agree with - they applaud the U.N., when the U.N. disagrees with them, the U.N. must be scum.:ohmy:

Israel was created from land that the British had stewardship over. The Palestinian people have been oppressed by many foreign countries in history and only want what you or I would want for our families - a place to call home, their ancestral land, to live in peace and prosperity with their neighbors. They have not been allowed the basic human rights that you and I take for granted. :(

U2 were openly snubbed by a lot of the crowd at the Popmart concert in Tel Aviv when Bono gently brought up the issue of the rights of the Palestinians to live in dignity.

U2 are not pacificists, but THEY DO BELIEVE IN SOCIAL JUSTICE FOR EVERYONE. For people to put blinders on regarding the deplorable conditions that Palestinian people must live under and still try to relate to the message that U2 gives about Respect for others and the Right for everyone to live in Peace and Justice is plainly hypocritical.

I wonder what Bono thought when the crowd openly snubbed him. He couldn't have been happy. :eyebrow:

And the quote from Bono regarding "the troubles" the Northern Ireland IS PERFECT for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Many people from Northern Ireland have offered the idea that the ONLY WAY to achieve peace for BOTH SIDES in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is for a peace process similar to Northern Ireland's to be established there.:yes:

If Israel wants to be a world leader, let it be a world leader in fostering peace and understanding, rather than fomenting hatred and division.:up:

I think Bono would agree with that! :bono: :love: :hug:
 
I am sorry that I desire to see a two state solution where the Arab World no longer desires to see the complete and utter destruction of The Jews (PA's wording)

I am sorry that I fail to see the Evil Zionists (read, The Jews) as a bunch of Baby Killing Shylocks as the Palestinian Authorities UN Approved school textbooks insist they are.

Im sorry that the Arab armies failed outright to defeat Israel in '48. '67 and '73 then went crying to the UN to settle their problems for them.

Im sorry that I have a problem when the Jordanian millitary murders 20,000 Palestinian Refugees and everybody just forgets in order to continue to castigate Israel for unintentionally inflicting a fraction of those casualties in defensive operations against Arab Agression.

Im sorry that I cannot see a moral equivalence between gunning down a pregnant woman and launching a missile at a known and identified terrorist leader in a car.

Im Sorry that my knowledge of history extends back before the second intafada and I cannot lie to myself and just say its all a cycle of violence and Israel is equally responsible for terrorism as the Palestinians.

Im sorry that Israel has the audacity to protect its own civilians be they Jew, Christian, Muslim even if they live in the disputed territories.

Im sorry that I think that sanctioning and planning the murder of innocent civilians for a political ends is terrorism rather than the conducting of anti-terrorism operations against murderers.

Im sorry that Arafat was offered a Palestinian State in 2000 which he had to turn down because he knows that terrorism would get him more sympathy and international support.

Sorry if I think that the degree of injustice is proportional to the number of people killed, Armenian Genocide exeeded 1 million, Saddams Anfal campaign against the Kurds >100,000.

Im sorry that I believe that Armenians and Kurds are more deserving of a nation than the decendents of Arabs that settled in Palestine as the Zionists emmigrated there and made it livable.

Frankly I am sorry that so many people here are opposed to terrorism but will not condemn the last 40 years of Palestinian "Diplomacy".

Note: This objective breakdown of the casualites of the current conflict shows the facts surrounding casualties and will demonstrate why there is no equivalence between IDF operations and a Homocide Bomber.
http://www.ict.org.il/articles/articledet.cfm?articleid=439
 
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What you've just written is very intolerant, to put it mildly.

What is "they" (the Zionists)? Every person living in Israel? Every Jew? Please explain.
And "always have and always will"? You've written some very disturbing generalizations here. I live in Israel, I am Jewish. Does that make me a "history slanting Zionist"? Does that fit with the poems you've liked so much?

Those poems blame everyone involved, not just one side.

And this land is the ancestors' land of both sides, by the way.

I'm sick of people always saying "Palestinians" as opposed to "Israel". As if millions of people who live in Israel are just one entity with one opinion.
As if we don't suffer just as well. Ever thought about how it feels like taking the bus to school/work and wondering if this is the day you'll be blown to bits? With one of the buss stops on the rout completely shattered to pieces and still has blood all over the place because of yesterday's suicide attack, and you can't believe that just in the last moment you've switched to night shift otherwise you wouldn't be alive right now?
And how about looking at your year book from high school only too see all those faces you'll never see again, not in this life anyway.
Or feeling almost certain that one day it'll get to you to. The first time someone who knows someone you know is killed, than someone you know is killed. Later on a friend is murdered, not "just"an acquaintance. Then there is that time when it could have been you on that buss, or walking in that street, but you decided to switch shifts in the last moment. And you feel it getting closer each and every single time, until it will finally get to you just as well.

This is my life, and guess what? Not much fun there. We seem to be living a normal life most of the time, but it is just an appearance.

Yes, Palestinians have suffered greatly, and I do believe that they deserve their own country. But I have never heard their leaders even recognizing the existence of Israel. In Palestinians schools the maps won't mention that Israel exists either. Those books refer to the entire land as Palestine.

The occupation should end, and the PMs Israel has had over the years didn't exactly prove to be leaders rather than little politicians handling this conflict. But don't give the Palestinians the benefit of the doubt of not having any responsibility for their situation just as well.

And with all the respect that I have for u2, I don't think that they should be dragged into this argument. Their opinion is just another opinion, like everyone else's.
 
sarit said:
And with all the respect that I have for u2, I don't think that they should be dragged into this argument. Their opinion is just another opinion, like everyone else's.

:up:
 
Prejudice and intolerance shrouded in half truths must be challenged and probably should be stricken from public view.

It's ONE thing to share an opinion, it's another to foment and foster misunderstanding and hatred.

Some obviously slanted and negative opinions really should have no place on this REPUTABLE U2 fansite.

THE TRUTH IS SIMPLY THE TRUTH, WHETHER IT INVOLVES U2 OR NOT.

WE'RE ONE, BUT WE'RE NOT THE SAME. WE GET TO CARRY EACH OTHER.....:up: :bono: :heart: :heart: ;) :angel: :hug:
 
The truth is simply the truth, Israel has some blood on its hands because it has to deal with murderers on a daily basis. If people genuinely believed in peace then they would praise the Security Barrier for preventing bombings in a nonviolent manner then demand that Arafat resign and that the reformed Palestinian Authority accept the 2000 offer unconditionally. Israel would be safe, Palestinians would have a very good homeland and things could move forward in peace.

Terrorism is never Right so punish the Perpetrator and not the Victim.
 
I'm saddened to read your remarks about Israelis not having much fun, sarit, although I can only imagine how true that must be. It puts me to shame. I really should not complain about my life because I'm safe. I guess I'm just a wimp. :reject:
 
Jamila said:
Prejudice and intolerance shrouded in half truths must be challenged and probably should be stricken from public view.

It's ONE thing to share an opinion, it's another to foment and foster misunderstanding and hatred.

Some obviously slanted and negative opinions really should have no place on this REPUTABLE U2 fansite.

THE TRUTH IS SIMPLY THE TRUTH, WHETHER IT INVOLVES U2 OR NOT.

WE'RE ONE, BUT WE'RE NOT THE SAME. WE GET TO CARRY EACH OTHER.....:up: :bono: :heart: :heart: ;) :angel: :hug:

"Negative opinions"? Just because you don't agree with something doesn't mean it's wrong.

What are those slanted and negative opinions you are talking about? Specify.

And you still didn't answer my question-who are those Zionists you are referring to? Does living in Israel and being Jewish makes me a "history slanting Zionist" automatically?
Arguing history is just fine, but this kind of statements are definitely not.

You are speaking in generalizations. The world isn't black and white. The truth is not just the truth, but the way you (or anyone else) see it.
 
Unfortunately Sarit "Zionist" is now a label that is codeword for Jew. It breaks my heart whenever I see people mask their hatred by saying that they are not anti-semitic per se but are merely anti-Zionist.

The speech patterns are always the same as any racist however they avoid being procecuted for inciting hatred because protesting against political movements is protected speech even when said political movement is really codeword an entire nation of people and protesting is advocation of their destruction (This is obviously not Jamila's view however some Muslim Clerics will incite hatred in this way). Seeing it here out of its proper context does not make me feel very good.
 
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