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Old 06-28-2010, 02:33 PM   #976
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Originally Posted by maycocksean View Post
This is what it boils down to at the end of the day, though isn't it.

I don't want my tax money being used to help poor people.

Why?

Because the poor are shiftless, lazy, and dishonest--obviously, otherwise they wouldn't be poor. Let them die in their hovels--that's what they deserve.

A friend of mine (and yes, she is a good friend--we just happened to deeply disagree on politics) and I were arguing about health care reform a year or so ago, and as I kept pushing her on why she was against it, this is essentially what it came down to.

Which is why even though I strongly agree with the conservative position that government tends to do a poorer job compared to the private sector in almost every area and has little motivation to be efficient or to avoid overspending, I can not be a conservative. The lack of compassion and the disdain for the poor is unacceptable to me.

But all of this is beside the point because frankly, INDY, neither you or any other conservative posters have been able to explain exactly HOW the government is going to cost us taxpayers more. You're great with the snappy little one-liners but you haven't brought a decent argument to the table in months. And it's a shame, because while some wouldn't listen, I would. Heck, I think the last post in the health care thread now languishing on page two was some questions I really would have liked to discuss. But there were no takers.

"Because the poor are shiftless, lazy, and dishonest--obviously, otherwise they wouldn't be poor. Let them die in their hovels--that's what they deserve."

This is a conservative view on healthcare? Nobody I know thinks that way . I am a fiscally conservative Democrat, who worked really hard with a large group of Dr's, to get Hillary elected . None of them thought of people that way.

I would be more than happy to provide my insight on an issue I have fought for, hard, approx 16 years. It is part of my life every single day.

I can easily explain why the Bill that passed that nobody read because , to Quote the Speaker of the house " You have to pass it to find out what's in it , I guess . It is a disaster waiting to happen. Both from a fiscal standpoint, and a medical care standpoint.

To go further into the fiscal problems we face , from a conservative standpoint , is something that had it been well reported, and explained, people of ALL views would be running for the hills. Some are freaked about it , that's where your tea party came from. Not the nut job in the video's. Normal, everyday people. I can explain why we need about 10 people to fill positions we cannot hire them. It is the same for every business. There is a political reason why we can't. It is bipartisan.

Economically, we are in DEEP doo. everyone is. be more than happy to explain it, and healthcare would be a great way to approach it.

let me know. It is an important issue . As Far as healthcare specifically, everyone, and I mean everyone is going to wake up in 4 years (imagine how many feet we can amputate in that time ) and wish for another time.
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Old 06-28-2010, 02:35 PM   #977
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then please explain.
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Old 06-28-2010, 02:45 PM   #978
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I don't know about prize, but pretty much everyone would think this guy is an idiot.
Then why the praise to Glenn calling him the first to do so?
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Originally Posted by Benji2112 View Post
The George Soros came up, as the majority posting comments on the linked video, were Huffington Post , MSNBC etc, or citing them as a reasonable alternative to what they want/need the Tea Party to be.

Being the Huffington post, media matters and a host of others who grasp at every hope of toppling the Tea Party are funded by George Soros, the source of funding would be relevent to what comes out of these people.Keep the person paying the bills happy right? Posting everywhere they can try and find an excuse to discredit the tea party.I always ask myself why ? Has to be fear. Been almost 2 years and nothing sticks. Maybe there is a reason for that.
You should quit using youtube comments as a source for anything. You look foolish doing so...




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Beck is a great example. If he is so crazy, why do they spend so much time , effort and money to counter his every word? He is just a disc Jockey. people can listen or not, but why all the attention? Does he deserve it? I don't think so, but the only reasonable conclusion is something fears him. Why?
It's not because of him, it's because of his listeners. They treat him as a true source of info, some like a god... he's a fraud. He's dangerous just like TV evangilists are dangerous.


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theories and lies? What Theory do I have? that statement alone proves everything I am saying. When presented the truth, in any fashion, rather than check, it is Theories and Lies.
I'm still waiting on that link showing Bono is a member of the Club of Rome, or that he's downplaying his injury due to losing money.

You preach about info, but all you post about is speculation and inuendo.
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Old 06-28-2010, 02:47 PM   #979
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This is a conservative view on healthcare? Nobody I know thinks that way .

Then you need to get out more often.
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Old 06-28-2010, 04:07 PM   #980
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Then why the praise to Glenn calling him the first to do so?

You should quit using youtube comments as a source for anything. You look foolish doing so...







It's not because of him, it's because of his listeners. They treat him as a true source of info, some like a god... he's a fraud. He's dangerous just like TV evangilists are dangerous.



I'm still waiting on that link showing Bono is a member of the Club of Rome, or that he's downplaying his injury due to losing money.

You preach about info, but all you post about is speculation and inuendo.

I preach nothing.

you know, I just read 68 pages containing many of the same theme of argumentitive posts , made by you, that you are doing here. I will take the Mods advice that he gave regarding them and apply it here. It was good advice.

Take everything you write and reverse it . that is how to best understand you. It is very telling.

Now we have have an understanding. It is your choice to be that way, and from the dates on the posts, you have chosen to engage in your unique form of discussion for a long time. . That is you right. I chose not to. thats my right . Please honor it.

I will say one last thing. I told you where to find it, go get it if you want to. Your sitting down, it cant be that strenuous. You can do it if you want to. The interviewS, as I said of Bono being concerned about Money, is also right in the links of the Paul statements.There are 2 of them. Read it if you are inerested. Ignore it if you are not.

Have a good life. there is time.
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Old 06-28-2010, 04:37 PM   #981
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Originally Posted by Benji2112 View Post
"Because the poor are shiftless, lazy, and dishonest--obviously, otherwise they wouldn't be poor. Let them die in their hovels--that's what they deserve."

This is a conservative view on healthcare? Nobody I know thinks that way . I am a fiscally conservative Democrat, who worked really hard with a large group of Dr's, to get Hillary elected . None of them thought of people that way.
I'd argue that this is the approximate view of a good portion of the "Tea Party." Something along the lines of, "I don't want people to freeload off my money," if they're more polite (although still ignorant).
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Old 06-28-2010, 04:52 PM   #982
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then please explain.
yes, I will work on it tonight.
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Old 06-28-2010, 05:18 PM   #983
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I'd argue that this is the approximate view of a good portion of the "Tea Party." Something along the lines of, "I don't want people to freeload off my money," if they're more polite (although still ignorant).

it's more of "quit wasting my money, let me keep more of it as I know how and can help people better than the Government "

Or

"I didn't give out adjustable rate mortages to people who knew that cant afford them,with no income , so why am I on the hook for 135 TRILLION dollars based on a couple of Congressmans ideas".

It is not the idea that someone gets help, buying a house, it is more the Freddie and fannie FIASCO , which is collapsing our system. it is more of the idea that Government can help someone get a house ( which nobody really had a problem with ) it is the fact that the Congressman , Dodd and frank were big on this, allowed them to give people 300,000 loans that didnt have any income. Now, people who were responsible , have to pay for the Government, and people who knew thay could not pay .

so it isnt helping people, but think of it like this. The couple in restaurant sitting next to you orders a 400.00 of wine and a 1,000 worth of food. they get the check and say Thanks, as they throw it on your table and leave. Tea party people dont think that is right . They think it is worse that Congress and the Senate are throwing bills on the peoples table.

That are asking. demanding they be fiscally responsible. We are in such deep _____ now , financially, if we dont do something now , we are done. Budgeting. these people all budget, why cant the government?

I went to the healthcare march in washington. besides a couple of idiots ( 2 out of 30,000 is not bad ) everyone was cool as heck. wasnt a piece of paper on the ground.

These are your grandparents, neighbors, store owners , drs. You name it.

There will always be a fringe around any group, but Tea Party is not organized , has no leadership, it is just regular people who want them to stop throwing money around , or in their pockets , special interests etc, on both sides, to stop.

Harry Reid is gone, Allan Mollohan got booted Sestak , repubicans, democrats, they dont care, these guys who have been taking our money for years, they are all going to go. Obama has a very short window or he's gone. At this point, anyone who has been part of the 'system" they are toast. Out of Office . To them, they are the problem.

If Government stops wasting money, doesnt that leave more help for those who need it? tea party thinks so.

go to a rally sometimes. You will be very surprised at who these people are.

they are not what MSNBC, or whoever says they are. Not even close. every time they say unruly mob? They are usually singing god bless america or something. It will open your eyes to go to one and watch what they say about it afterwards. You will think they are talking about somewhere else.

always 5 people attending. usually thousands in reality.
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Old 06-28-2010, 05:51 PM   #984
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I find the post about how Tea party people would not understand Buckley interesting and yet, in reviewing a commercial for Becks new book ( a novel by the way ) they slammed the words of the commercial as jibberish, written by a 2 year old , Howled at "the lack of any sentence structure", "Obviously written by a 12 year old " on and on . this was just the television ad, before his book came out .
You're not making much sense here (prophecy fulfilled?). I don't know what you're trying to say.
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Old 06-28-2010, 05:53 PM   #985
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They are usually singing god bless america or something. It will open your eyes to go to one and watch what they say about it afterwards. You will think they are talking about somewhere else.
Holding up their Obama=Hitler/Stalin signs as they sing. Complaining about "big government" as they deposit their Social Security checks. I them.
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Old 06-28-2010, 05:54 PM   #986
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If Government stops wasting money, doesnt that leave more help for those who need it? tea party thinks so.
This is not what the Tea Party thinks.

The Tea Party wants to "lower taxes and and increase military spending".



They don't want to help those who need it. Have you read the conservatives responses in here, have you ever listened to Beck, Hannity, or Rush? Healthcare is just an entitlement program, these people should get their own jobs. There is no such thing as people who "need" it, just those that are lazy and want to sponge off the government.
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Old 06-28-2010, 05:56 PM   #987
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My God, that picture. How dumb are these people?
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Old 06-28-2010, 05:58 PM   #988
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first, Harry Reid is going to win, because the woman he's running against is a lunatic.

but please explain this:

Quote:
it's more of "quit wasting my money, let me keep more of it as I know how and can help people better than the Government "
could you please tell me your plan for the following:

1. paving roads
2. policing the streets
3. responding to house fires
4. educating children
5. making sure the elderly don't die in poverty like they did before social security and medicare

and that's just a grab bag.

i'm fairly certain that no one actually wants to go back to that kind of brutal 19th-century society.

you also mentioned loans. have you heard of the phrase "predatory lending"? do the banks not bear some responsibility for literally preying upon vulnerable people and selling them mortgages and then cranking up their ARM's? it's quite convenient to blame Freddie and Fannie when the real chicanery happened on Wall Street.

what strikes me most about the above post is that you seem to feel as if you're getting a raw deal. that you've been screwed over. and that someone else has walked away with a $400 bottle of wine. what's sad is you seem to think the person with the wine is the mother who's house has been foreclosed on, or the guy who's been out of work for 18 months and may never be employed again, or the 40m people who can't afford health insurance. you are blaming the most vulnerable people in our society when you've actually been screwed by the most powerful.

where were you in 2000-2008 when the GOP and Bush spent like drunken sailors? were you marching on washington then talking about being fiscally responsible? or is it only now, with a president who believes that government has a responsibility to help the most vulnerable citizens of society, that all this spending suddenly becomes a problem? are you angry about farm subsidies? how about the huge leap in entitlements under Bush? the refusal of the GOP to cut Medicare? are you ready to cut defense? do you actually think that lowering taxes is fiscally responsible? are you protesting the trillion-dollar nation building efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan? do you realize that only this would *actually* cut into spending and not all these relatively trivial spending "cuts" about "pork" and "waste" that amounts to nothing compared to a decade-long war in a country that bankrupted both the British and the Russians?

i live in DC. i saw them riding on our (tax-payer subsidized and totally socialist and intended to help poor people move around a city) Metro system. and they looked more like people feeling displaced by a changing culture than by people with any sort of coherent message to send anyone in DC.
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Old 06-28-2010, 06:05 PM   #989
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I will say one last thing. I told you where to find it, go get it if you want to. Your sitting down, it cant be that strenuous. You can do it if you want to. The interviewS, as I said of Bono being concerned about Money, is also right in the links of the Paul statements.There are 2 of them. Read it if you are inerested. Ignore it if you are not.

Have a good life. there is time.
I'm going to ignore the crap and quickly touch upon this because I'd like to stay on topic, but no you did not. You said the "cover of NY times", no date or issue. Done a search and the last to mention (RED) said it was making profit. So there's that. No link to the Club of Rome thing, and there never will be and you know that. And the interview you completely read out of context for it says nothing to which you stated.

And of course no evidence about your conspiracy theory about Bono's back.

But if you ever want to really engage in true discussion, I'll be here.
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Old 06-28-2010, 06:13 PM   #990
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it's more of "quit wasting my money, let me keep more of it as I know how and can help people better than the Government "

Or

"I didn't give out adjustable rate mortages to people who knew that cant afford them,with no income , so why am I on the hook for 135 TRILLION dollars based on a couple of Congressmans ideas".

It is not the idea that someone gets help, buying a house, it is more the Freddie and fannie FIASCO , which is collapsing our system. it is more of the idea that Government can help someone get a house ( which nobody really had a problem with ) it is the fact that the Congressman , Dodd and frank were big on this, allowed them to give people 300,000 loans that didnt have any income. Now, people who were responsible , have to pay for the Government, and people who knew thay could not pay .

so it isnt helping people, but think of it like this. The couple in restaurant sitting next to you orders a 400.00 of wine and a 1,000 worth of food. they get the check and say Thanks, as they throw it on your table and leave. Tea party people dont think that is right . They think it is worse that Congress and the Senate are throwing bills on the peoples table.

That are asking. demanding they be fiscally responsible. We are in such deep _____ now , financially, if we dont do something now , we are done. Budgeting. these people all budget, why cant the government?

I went to the healthcare march in washington. besides a couple of idiots ( 2 out of 30,000 is not bad ) everyone was cool as heck. wasnt a piece of paper on the ground.

These are your grandparents, neighbors, store owners , drs. You name it.

There will always be a fringe around any group, but Tea Party is not organized , has no leadership, it is just regular people who want them to stop throwing money around , or in their pockets , special interests etc, on both sides, to stop.

Harry Reid is gone, Allan Mollohan got booted Sestak , repubicans, democrats, they dont care, these guys who have been taking our money for years, they are all going to go. Obama has a very short window or he's gone. At this point, anyone who has been part of the 'system" they are toast. Out of Office . To them, they are the problem.

If Government stops wasting money, doesnt that leave more help for those who need it? tea party thinks so.

go to a rally sometimes. You will be very surprised at who these people are.

they are not what MSNBC, or whoever says they are. Not even close. every time they say unruly mob? They are usually singing god bless america or something. It will open your eyes to go to one and watch what they say about it afterwards. You will think they are talking about somewhere else.

always 5 people attending. usually thousands in reality.
Nothing you're writing about addresses what I'm talking about.

My post was mainly about things like health care and welfare. That's what Sean was referring to: "helping poor people." That's what he said in his post. My post had absolutely nothing to do with mortgages or loans. That's not what I was talking about. So, right there, your tangent did not address the point of my post, a point which was crystal clear based on the series of posts leading up to it.

Beyond that, your comments about government spending are bizarre. This vague "government spending" thing that the Tea Party likes to rant about is never specific enough to accomplish anything. If you actually look at the specifics, their anger over "wasteful spending" is not productive. The biggest (by far) weights on the budget of the government were previously outlined by Irvine: Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, and Defense. The only one of those that could be reasonably reduced is defense, and I think we can be pretty damn certain that most Tea Party followers don't want significant reductions in defense spending.
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