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Old 04-20-2010, 03:59 AM   #631
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You have the record that I have seen for the most amount of non sense in the shortest period of time right now.
At least you are giving me some credit
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Old 04-20-2010, 04:16 AM   #632
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Oh, I don't mind. The bright colors and extra large fonts you use while questioning my integrity and intelligence are slightly amusing. Of course, I’ve become a tad bit used to it in FYM over the years. However, occasionally, rational discourse does take place and a good point is acknowledged. Most people in here understand that each of us has limited time and cannot answer every question in the depth it probably deserves – or we try to answer a few questions from different people with one post in the hopes it covers the general idea of our premise. We also try our best with the resources and time available to add weight to the thoughts we share. Occasionally, I will dust off old college books – otherwise I will go online for sources. The truth is – both sides of just about any argument can find sources to back up their opinion.

You seem like an educated, passionate young person. I am personally not a big fan of passion. Too much passion is too much emotion, and we cannot control our minds (and most especially our words) when we are ruled by emotion. From the great Epictetus, “No one is free who is not master of himself.”

You can ignore what Epictetus is saying here (which is mirrored in the great teachings of Buddhism, Christianity, Gnosticism…etc) or you can step back – and really consider what that means. Even though we are online, and I can’t see your face – the real you is shining through. And I don’t imagine you want to be the type of person that shouts his opinions with a blow horn and quickly judges the integrity of his opponents. Such a person will eventually look around…and find that nobody is listening.
Oh, Please do stop!

I appreciate the attempt at humor by making an internet diagnosis of me(talk about losing control over your health care, lol).

I have strong views, but I am not an ideologue driven by passion who lets it overcome rationality. This psycho-analysis and quote of a great mind is a great way to change the subject instead of providing a simple answer to a simple question! I am free in thought, rest assured!

If you really knew me, you would know I am no screaming ass liberal, but rather moderate Democrat. I hang out with Cops, business owners, economists, etc. Not left wing whackos in Berkley or Cambridge, MA. My posts indicate my moderate views in many areas. In fact, the last letter I wrote to a politician was on behalf of my brother, who is seeking a change in Massachusetts concealed carry law from "may issue" to "shall issue' for criteria meeting law abiding citizens. No, I am not an NRA person, I support background checks, etc, but I am not the kind of person who is repulsed by the thought of someone owning a gun. Just a short story about me. I am sure you have one!

Thank you for your concern, but I am really not driven by passion so much as reason. Hence my emphasis on simple, empirical numbers.

You are 100% right, almost everyone can come up with some data to back up their opinion, but that does not mean that the very specific number we are talking about backs you up here.

I realize, I should not be asking for detailed explanations. All I really want, and I have repeated it over and over, and that is the reason for the tacky bold and colors, etc, is for you to see that on this one, tiny, little number called tax% of GDP, your claim was wrong.

I am objective here, not trying to say that any number you throw up is going to be false on its face, just saying that it is a FACT, just as sure as the sun will rise in the East, that tax to GDP ratio has not increased in the last few years.

Of course, you can find plenty of legitimate statistics to use plenty of different ways to back your views(conservative, and THERE IS NO PROBLEM WITH THAT) on Obama or the deficit or what have you.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Now, down to what I really want to say.

And the sarcasm is all in the past now, mind you!

I realize that sometimes, I can get carried away! In my attempt to make or explain a point, I get way too sarcastic or way too happy with the bolds and the colors.

I will always have to watch my posting style, and I have tried my best to let my reasonable side show through most of the time.

Please understand that it is not personal, and as much as we can disagree, know that I always appreciate the discussion.

You said I seem like a passionate and informed young man, and truly, thank you for the compliment!

I noticed in your profile that you are in the National Guard, so thank you for serving our country!

U2 fan to U2 fan, neither one of us could be that bad!

I think we are alright now, maybe a little closer to understanding each other.

I will see you around.

Greg Ander
Boston, MA
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Old 04-20-2010, 04:19 AM   #633
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After some additional research, I see that the CBO and OECD do in fact use different calculations to determine revenue to GDP estimates. Thank you for pointing that out and I apologize for the confusion.

It is the CBO’s version, and not the OECD’s, which is historically at 18.3 percent. According the CBO report, “Over the 2010–2019 period, under the assumptions for CBO’s baseline, total outlays would average 23.4 percent of GDP” (pp. 3) – still a significant increase.
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Old 04-20-2010, 04:21 AM   #634
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At least you are giving me some credit
That was over the line a bit, my apologies!
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Old 04-20-2010, 04:23 AM   #635
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After some additional research, I see that the CBO and OECD do in fact use different calculations to determine revenue to GDP estimates. Thank you for pointing that out and I apologize for the confusion.

It is the CBO’s version, and not the OECD’s, which is historically at 18.3 percent. According the CBO report, “Over the 2010–2019 period, under the assumptions for CBO’s baseline, total outlays would average 23.4 percent of GDP” (pp. 3) – still a significant increase.
Yes, outlays. Meaning spending. Not revenue

Which is still a problem of course, as 23.4 for spending compared to 18 for revenues is quite an imbalance.

A challenge.

Democratic ideas wont solve it alone.

Republican ideas wont solve it alone.

And that, AEON, is the common ground.
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Old 04-20-2010, 04:28 AM   #636
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You said I seem like a passionate and informed young man, and truly, thank you for the compliment!
You’re welcome.

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I noticed in your profile that you are in the National Guard, so thank you for serving our country!
You’re welcome.

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U2 fan to U2 fan, neither one of us could be that bad!
Agreed.

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I think we are alright now, maybe a little closer to understanding each other.
Definitely.
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Old 04-20-2010, 04:33 AM   #637
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You’re welcome.

You’re welcome.

Agreed.


Definitely.
Hey, truly, thanks a lot!

See you around here, and know that the tone I took will never be back.
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Old 04-20-2010, 04:46 AM   #638
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Yes, outlays. Meaning spending. Not revenue

Which is still a problem of course, as 23.4 for spending compared to 18 for revenues is quite an imbalance.
Again, I was a little quick with the trigger - you are correct - the spending is projected at 23.4 (historically around 20). However, the revenue will be down to 14.9 in 2010 (I think you pointed this out earlier as well), which makes the imbalance a bit more glaring.

But I do agree regarding the common ground...(also - I've been an Independent for a few years now)
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Old 04-20-2010, 04:53 AM   #639
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and know that the tone I took will never be back.
No worries - you have a sharp mind and I see you love logic (and maybe a little love for rhetoric) - you're on the right track in my opinion. Pick up a copy of Marcus Aurelius' Meditations and you'll be good to go!
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Old 04-20-2010, 05:06 AM   #640
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Deep, I realize I have misinterpreted some of your posts in the past and jumped down your throat because I actually thought you were some teenaged troll! For that I apologize, and I've been meaning to say as much for a while!

You seem to spend a lot of time doing the same kind of analysis!

So what do I think?

I have as good an idea as you!!

We are in April, not September for one!
I never take anything in here personal.

I do think the GOP will pick up at least 4-5 seats in the Senate and around 25 in the House.

I may revise my opinions as Nov gets closer.
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Old 04-20-2010, 05:13 AM   #641
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I am objective here, not trying to say that any number you throw up is going to be false on its face, just saying that it is a FACT, just as sure as the sun will rise in the East .


does the sun rise in the east, and go around the earth?
is that a fact?
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Old 04-20-2010, 03:41 PM   #642
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does the sun rise in the east, and go around the earth?
is that a fact?
Not sure I understand, I made no supplementary claim!
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Old 04-20-2010, 03:56 PM   #643
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fact? the sun rises,

if it rises, does it also travel across the heavens and then fall ?

it appears to rise, due to our vantage point on a rotating earth.
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Old 04-20-2010, 04:50 PM   #644
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I appreciate someone playing the devil's advocate, but come on, deep.
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Old 04-20-2010, 05:13 PM   #645
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I am really not trying to cause an argument,

I am just suggesting that a better example for a 'fact' would be that the earth rotates


I am sure when that phase was coined,
people did believe it was a fact that the sun rose in the east and traveled around the earth on a daily bais.
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