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Old 03-09-2010, 06:48 PM   #181
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They don't get the PR because they're too busy out there trying to make a difference.
Well that and because they're secretly communist and nazis according to Glenn Beck.

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INDY makes an interesting point.
No, he really doesn't, in fact he shows the hypocricy of his own platform. He's willing to argue religious reasons for those issues that help him, but those that don't he makes a snide remark about separation of church and state.

No one is arguing a religious reason for healthcare, just that it happens to coincide with some religion's teachings.

You can't say the same for gay marriage, that is first and foremost a religious issue and all secular reasons fail miserbly.

So not an interesting point, but a shining light on the platform that's for sure.
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Old 03-09-2010, 07:16 PM   #182
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So... because of the separation of church and state then opponents of Obamacare and the Welfare State should argue that they are unconstitutional because they impose the Christian religion and the teachings of Jesus onto society through the oppressive might of the federal government.

That's brilliant !! Why didn't we heartless conservatives think of that?
This is incredibly stupid. This implies that only Christians aid the poor.
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Old 03-09-2010, 07:51 PM   #183
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Well that and because they're secretly communist and nazis according to Glenn Beck.
Being inflammatory is not the same thing as being right. I think a lot of people know that. Someone should tell Mr. Beck.

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No, he really doesn't, in fact he shows the hypocricy of his own platform.
Actually, I thought he was trying to show the hypocrisy of people who scream and shout about separation of church and state and how freedom of religion means freedom from religion out of one side of their mouths, and out of the other tell Christians they should get on board with nationalized health care because it's about helping the sick and the poor. (Never mind the fact that an awful lot of Christians don't need the government telling them to help the sick and the poor, since they already do.)

Religion is a utility for exploitation on both sides of the aisle, and it's disgusting. Let's just be intellectually honest about it.
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Old 03-09-2010, 08:23 PM   #184
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Religion is a utility for exploitation on both sides of the aisle, and it's disgusting. Let's just be intellectually honest about it.
Sure, but let's be honest about who exploits it more...

I don't see any loud voices using the religious argument with healthcare.
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Old 03-09-2010, 08:44 PM   #185
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This is incredibly stupid. This implies that only Christians aid the poor.
Right, almost as stupid as saying only more power concentrated in the hands of government can aid the poor.
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Old 03-09-2010, 08:46 PM   #186
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Actually, I thought he was trying to show the hypocrisy of people who scream and shout about separation of church and state and how freedom of religion means freedom from religion out of one side of their mouths, and out of the other tell Christians they should get on board with nationalized health care because it's about helping the sick and the poor. (Never mind the fact that an awful lot of Christians don't need the government telling them to help the sick and the poor, since they already do.)
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Old 03-09-2010, 08:51 PM   #187
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No one is arguing a religious reason for healthcare, just that it happens to coincide with some religion's teachings.

from 8/20/2009

RealClearPolitics - Video - O'Reilly: Obama In "Preacher Mode" On Health Care
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Old 03-09-2010, 08:54 PM   #188
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Actually, I thought he was trying to show the hypocrisy of people who scream and shout about separation of church and state

Seriously? You actually think that's what he was trying to do?
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Old 03-09-2010, 08:58 PM   #189
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Nice try. All he said was "moral obligation". You should listen and read your sources next time.

INDY, come on! You aren't even trying as of late.
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Old 03-09-2010, 11:08 PM   #190
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Would you go so far as the president and say I'm "bearing false witness" against health care reform?
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Old 03-10-2010, 12:29 AM   #191
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Right, almost as stupid as saying only more power concentrated in the hands of government can aid the poor.
You use the word "power" in very vague terms.

I believe government spending needs to be greatly re-constructed. We spend too much abroad on defense and not enough domestically on our own problems.
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Old 03-10-2010, 12:32 AM   #192
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So... because of the separation of church and state then opponents of Obamacare and the Welfare State should argue that they are unconstitutional because they impose the Christian religion and the teachings of Jesus onto society through the oppressive might of the federal government.

That's brilliant !! Why didn't we heartless conservatives think of that?
Come on now. I was commenting on the disconnect that a man who is a member of the LDS is telling other Christians to not be giving. It's also amusing that the religious right tends to disregard that aspect of their religion.

I'm of the opinion that people should help others in whatever way they can and I'm agnostic. Helping others is not only for the religious but it is one of the things I respect most about most religions.

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The generosity of churches and faith communities in times of crisis is well-documented, actually... many, many churches have sent doctors, food, aid, and finances to the recent victims in Haiti and Chile, for example. Many more spend their weekends feeding the homeless, serving people in need, etc. And a number of Christian healthcare co-ops etc. have sprung up over the past several years in response to spiralling health care costs, specifically designed to provide affordable health care to those who need it. They don't get the PR because they're too busy out there trying to make a difference.

INDY makes an interesting point.
I respect any organization who tries to help others. I'm also cognizant of the fact that many religious organizations do a lot of charity work. I'm also aware that many people help others for reasons other than religion.
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Old 03-10-2010, 06:41 AM   #193
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Would you go so far as the president and say I'm "bearing false witness" against health care reform?
I don't know, I can't tell if you are uninformed or flat out lying.

But there are many that are "bearing false witness", and using such languange still doesn't prove the point you were trying to make. Maybe next time...
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Old 03-12-2010, 04:01 PM   #194
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Coffee Party | Wake Up and Stand Up

can this party get any traction?


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Old 03-12-2010, 05:17 PM   #195
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I like some of what this lady says, but holy fricking cow does she take forever to say it.
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