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Old 07-09-2007, 09:54 PM   #76
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didn't you people read the article!?!?!

we just need to give time for the surge to work. STING2 has said, repeatedly, that it takes 10 years for a counterinsurgency to work.

just look at Afghanistan in the 1980s. the Soviets occuped a Mulsim country of 20m people and maintained a force between 80-100,000 people, and managed to lose 14,000, but they were only there for nine years. see? if they had the balls to stick it out for just one more year ... because nothing major happened to the soviet union in 1990, did it? the country didn't totally collapse, did it?
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Old 07-09-2007, 09:57 PM   #77
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Originally posted by Irvine511
didn't you people read the article!?!?!

we just need to give time for the surge to work. STING2 has said, repeatedly, that it takes 10 years for a counterinsurgency to work.
i agree. more time needs to be given to let the government in iraq mature.
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Old 07-09-2007, 10:01 PM   #78
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As I am telling you I support the removal of Saddam with force, it was the right thing to do but you can't brush over the arrogance and failures post-bellum. At this stage the American people have decided that it isn't worth staying in Iraq, they rightly don't think that more lives should be spent to pursue vague policy that jumps to different justifications to mask the actual goal (oil security) and certainly not under this administration. Pouring lives in ad infinitum without any justification other than perpetuating the very situation that is costing lives is bad policy, and by their own standards they have failed to acheive their goals.

The rebuilding process has been rooted, things were accomplished early on but those gains were lost (look at the statistics on schools, hospitals and infrastructure projects that were built/rebuilt after the wars and sanctions only to have fallen back into a decrepit state).

The actual gains being made in central Iraq today are going to be wasted because the political winds have shifted, it isn't a stolen victory because that political capital (and so many lives) were squandered in a four year waste of time. Oil security is lost, Iraqi lives and a whole other generation will be lost (generations raised on fascism and war do not a stable situation make) - it's as if one could pick the worst outcomes of all scenarios and put them in one.
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Old 07-09-2007, 10:03 PM   #79
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(meant for the Irvine, struck double whammy)
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Old 07-09-2007, 10:03 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
didn't you people read the article!?!?!

we just need to give time for the surge to work. STING2 has said, repeatedly, that it takes 10 years for a counterinsurgency to work.

just look at Afghanistan in the 1980s. the Soviets occuped a Mulsim country of 20m people and maintained a force between 80-100,000 people, and managed to lose 14,000, but they were only there for nine years. see? if they had the balls to stick it out for just one more year ... because nothing major happened to the soviet union in 1990, did it? the country didn't totally collapse, did it?
I see you agree with Bin Laden now, how very convenient.
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Old 07-09-2007, 10:05 PM   #81
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Originally posted by struckpx


i agree. more time needs to be given to let the government in iraq mature.


totally! after all, just one more year and another thousand or so more dead Soviets would have made Afghanistan into practically the 51st state!

come on, people! we know the task at hand. Saddam was a monster, and destroying his government was easy, now we just need to give the liberated Iraqis 30-40 years and an endless supply of dead American kids and tax dollars to build a totally friendly democracy.
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Old 07-09-2007, 10:05 PM   #82
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I see you agree with Bin Laden now, how very convenient.
the bin laden of 1980, yes we do.
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Old 07-09-2007, 10:07 PM   #83
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
I see you agree with Bin Laden now, how very convenient.


if the Soviets had any BALLS there never would have bin a Bin Laden!

Пролетарии всех стран, соединяйтесь!
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Old 07-09-2007, 10:07 PM   #84
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No he has consistently claimed to have defeated the Atheistic Empire just as he will defeat you, it's the will of God after all.
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Old 07-09-2007, 10:08 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511


if the Soviets had any BALLS there never would have bin a Bin Laden!

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(except for Liberal Democrats)
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Old 07-09-2007, 10:10 PM   #86
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Originally posted by Irvine511



come on, people! we know the task at hand. Saddam was a monster, and destroying his government was easy, now we just need to give the liberated Iraqis 30-40 years and an endless supply of dead American kids and tax dollars to build a totally friendly democracy.
alright that comment makes me mad. the men and women who die there are giving their lives for us who live here. we honor them, look up to them. don't act like they are numbers, for they are more than that. although, overall our numbers have been very successful regarding overall casualties in iraq.
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Old 07-09-2007, 10:16 PM   #87
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Originally posted by struckpx


alright that comment makes me mad. the men and women who die there are giving their lives for us who live here. we honor them, look up to them. don't act like they are numbers, for they are more than that. although, overall our numbers have been very successful regarding overall casualties in iraq.


i agree! our young men and women are heros who should be honored for being sent by our president to die policing an Arab civil war created by our president when he decided to overthrow Saddam for purely political reasons.

the truth: only a genuine Empire could have sucessfully invaded and occupied Iraq. it would take a real Empire, with compulsory conscription, tand 4 imes the current level of troops and the willingness to use crushing, Saddam-like violence in order to subjugate the population into bending to the requirements of a democracy.

no American has the stomach for that. no American wants that to be the business of the United States.

a pity the sentimental neocon fools didn't listen to the libeals to begin with.

it's all over next March.
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Old 07-09-2007, 10:18 PM   #88
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar




Show me how this statement is anything but ignorance.

I dare you.

Guess not.
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Old 07-09-2007, 10:18 PM   #89
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Originally posted by Irvine511




i agree! our young men and women are heros who should be honored for being sent by our president to die policing an Arab civil war created by our president when he decided to overthrow Saddam for purely political reasons.

the truth: only a genuine Empire could have sucessfully invaded and occupied Iraq. it would take a real Empire, with compulsory conscription, tand 4 imes the current level of troops and the willingness to use crushing, Saddam-like violence in order to subjugate the population into bending to the requirements of a democracy.

no American has the stomach for that. no American wants that to be the business of the United States.

a pity the sentimental neocon fools didn't listen to the libeals to begin with.

it's all over next March.
it would take years to move out of iraq. so, i don't know where you get this philosophy that we can pack it up and jet out.
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Old 07-09-2007, 10:20 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally posted by struckpx


it would take years to move out of iraq. so, i don't know where you get this philosophy that we can pack it up and jet out.
You did it in Vietnam, Lebanon, Somalia etc.
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