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Old 07-20-2006, 05:52 PM   #76
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Dang, all my prayers really mean nothing at all?


only if they mean something to you.
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Old 07-20-2006, 05:57 PM   #77
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only if they mean something to you.

I actually know people that are grateful that people are praying for them....and I would be grateful if I knew that people are praying for me.
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Old 07-20-2006, 06:08 PM   #78
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I actually know people that are grateful that people are praying for them....and I would be grateful if I knew that people are praying for me.


likewise, it matters if you want it to matter. if someone praying for you makes you feel better, then it's working. if you don't care, then it isn't working.

but this is a side topic -- i believe there was a thread about a study that was done that showed that people with grevious illnesses who were prayed for actually did slightly worse than people who weren't prayed for.
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Old 07-20-2006, 06:19 PM   #79
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Well, of course you'd find this analysis faulty. You don't believe in prayer and you believe that praying people are a deteriment to enlightened society. First you have to convince him that prayer doesn't work. And from both ends of the spectrum, telling people that they are idiots doesn't usually change their minds (lest we forget the beleaguered atheism thread).
Well, remember you're talking to the man whose creed is
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Speaking of which, A_W--could I interest you in running my curriculum steering committee meeting tomorrow morning?
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Old 07-20-2006, 07:19 PM   #80
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So just so we're clear. You believe that if there was no more religion then there would be no more war?
No, war has been a staple of human nature since the first homonids, the danger of nihilistic believers wanting to kill the unbelievers however is a product of belief and it is that belief that is driving this war.

As for prayer the scientific studies on patient recovery rates of those who get prayed for and those who don't show no effect.
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Old 07-20-2006, 07:28 PM   #81
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ou don't believe in prayer and you believe that praying people are a deteriment to enlightened society.
I think that people praying don't have any major effect on society, thats not to say that people who pray are inherently better or worse than anyone else.
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Old 07-20-2006, 07:33 PM   #82
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When I pay for people the main idea isn't for them to feel better (unless I'm praying for them to feel better, heh heh). Let's say I were to pray for someone to be healed of an illness or get through a hard breakup. In reality my prayers wouldn't be affective unless they were affected in some way more than just letting them know I care. I rarely tell people I'm praying for them anyways, as at times it seems a little self-righteous to me.

That said, my prayers for peace in the Middle East (as much peace as there can be, anyways) would have absolutely no effect.
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Old 07-21-2006, 01:02 AM   #83
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No, war has been a staple of human nature since the first homonids.
Just making sure we're clear. Sometimes you seem to implying something different. I wouldn't deny the religious motivations of this current war though.
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Old 07-21-2006, 01:04 AM   #84
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I think that people praying don't have any major effect on society, thats not to say that people who pray are inherently better or worse than anyone else.
Really? Because I was always under the impression that you felt that religion was a blight upon humanity and that should be mocked and ridiculed into obsolescence. Your above quote sounds almost like. . .respect?

Perhaps I misunderstood.
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Old 07-21-2006, 02:24 AM   #85
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I didn't say that religious people are by definition bad individuals, I happen to believe that good or evil can manifest in any person by their actions and not their faith.

I do think that bronze age religious beliefs are an impediment for humanity, but that is not to say that I don't have respect for freedom of concience; people have a right to believe, but they don't have a right to not be offended and it is at that margin free speech can be protected.

Free speech, democracy and the marketplace of ideas is what I believe in, the right to mock and belittle falls right in there and minimises the dangers in belief; it's no coincidence that it's Islam and not modern Christianity (who's faith has had to adapt to the secular west) that is producing a good deal of extremism today.
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Old 07-21-2006, 05:06 PM   #86
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
I didn't say that religious people are by definition bad individuals, I happen to believe that good or evil can manifest in any person by their actions and not their faith.

I do think that bronze age religious beliefs are an impediment for humanity, but that is not to say that I don't have respect for freedom of concience; people have a right to believe, but they don't have a right to not be offended and it is at that margin free speech can be protected.

Free speech, democracy and the marketplace of ideas is what I believe in, the right to mock and belittle falls right in there and minimises the dangers in belief; it's no coincidence that it's Islam and not modern Christianity (who's faith has had to adapt to the secular west) that is producing a good deal of extremism today.
I understand where you're coming from A_Wanderer. Thanks.
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