The sanctity of divorce

[MrsSpringsteen]

I think from a very early age I knew my parents were never really "in love"..a few years ago my Mother went to a lawyer, but didn't go through w/ the divorce for financial reasons. I know for a fact what that type of marriage (and also abusive in many ways, but I don't want to get into that private stuff) does to children. Just from my experience, staying together for the sake of the children(in this type of situation, not when there are more minor issues that could possibly be worked out) is a big mistake.

When people do their very best to work things out, and are in a serious, committed relationship, and find that they must divorce, I would never judge them for that. Or in a loveless, abusive relationship, same there. It's only the people who don't take marriage seriously or who jump into marriage that I would question. Or of course who cheat on their spouses, etc..

Divorce is sad but sometimes actually the best thing, in my opinion. I can't count the number times I said to myself or out loud that I wish my parents had gotten divorced

 

[Dreadsox]

I can't count the number times I said to myself or out loud that I wish my parents had gotten divorced

I can relate to this....1,000%.

 

[Angela Harlem]

Your parents must still believe in marriage Dread. Please dont respond if you dont feel like talking about it, this thread wasn't intended for anyone to delve into their personal situations, more a discussion in general. I'd not like for anyone to talk about things they'd rather not. So please dont feel obliged or think it is me being nosey - more an presumption that even after 10 times, you still believe in something.

Interesting comments though everyone.

 

[Dreadsox]

One of my posts did not show up. I do not think love is a conscious choice either. I agree with that. However, much like a plant, love needs many things to survive. The question is, as husband and wife, are you putting the work into it together to make it bloom, or are you forgetting to weed the flower bed?




As for my situation...it is too long a story to tell. I would not model my marriage after any of them. I have posted in other threads, my marriage and relationship role model is my lesbian Aunt and her partner. They have been together for almost 30 years now.

 

[wolfeden]

Angela - Let me explain my position:
I say "No business getting married".... when one of those people is a very close friend of yours, who has TOLD YOU he's not sure he's doing the right thing, has not finished college, has no means of supporting himself nor his intended... I can feel quite comfortable in saying he had absolutely no business getting married to her.

And after it ended as messily as I'd known it would, he came to me and admitted that I was right.

Same way my own parents had no business getting married in the first place either. Love is love is love and nobody can dictate that between consenting adults, you are correct Angela, but undertaking the RESPONSIBILITY that is marriage requires more than just love.

Which is part of why I think the religious ceremony of a wedding should be made entirely separate from the legal responsibilities of a marriage.

However one chooses to wed, from any faith or tradition, is a ceremony of sharing joy and love... filing for a marriage license is nothing but a cold hard business agreement.

This whole gay marriage insanity wouldn't even exist if the two were made separate. Churches could duke it out amongst themselves as to whom they will hold weddings for, as is their right, but marriage as a legal and financial state would be made available to any two consenting adults.

My folks split when I was young. I never believed I'd get married - there was little to no tradition of such in my family as my parents went to the Justice of the Peace and held no ceremony, so there was nothing for me to even compare to in my mind. Witnessing some of the more violent episodes of their fighting cemented an extraordinarily negative image of "being married"

- being six years old and watching your father throw the bed he and your mother shared, off the back of a 3rd story porch into the back yard, is something else, let me tell you -

but since then, my mother and her partner have been together over 3 times as long as she and my father ever were, (almost 25 years) and thanks to new Massachusetts law, they can also now have the right to that legal and financial benefit of marriage.

Me... I honestly planned on being a cross-country trucker or something, until the one person on the entire planet who could change my mind on this asked me to. October 31 2004 will be 7 years of marriage, August 8th marks our tenth year together. We've hit rough patches that have caused other couples to part ways and survived. Why? I have no idea. Luck, a willingness to and understanding of the amount of work that goes into maintaining a partnership, the examples of our parents' various relationships... all that and a great deal more all go into a "successful marriage". There's no checklist or how-to list that can cover everything, and one couple's successful tactics might very well not work at ALL for other people.

Way too many words to try and express one small idea, I guess....

 

[BostonAnne]

As I am going through this divorce, I find this thread interesting. I agree with Dread, that relationships take work, and have been pretty angry that my husband isn't willing to try and work things out. We let our problems sit too long during the chaos of 3 kids, remodeling, moving, remodeling again. It got to the point that I demanded some peace from major projects and time to work things out and that's when he said that things will never work out.

I hope that next year I can say that this is the best thing...

 

[Angela Harlem]

Anne.

Wolfeden, Sorry I was too vague when I said no one can say people have no business getting married in the first place. The marriages you are describing are naturally those anyone would assume were never right to begin with. In an ideal world, we'd all hope that those are exceptions and not the norm. I guess what I was thinking of when I replied with that is the cases where outsiders will say things like 'they're too young, they have no money, no common sense, no self awareness or idea of who they are...' the list is long. I see these as the very thing which many/a lot/ some marriages encounter anyway and are the very same things people talk of having to work through with dedication and commitment once a marriage is being tried and tested. Yet once it is over, we calmly say it was wrong in the first place. I guess I'm still being too vague as everyone is different and there are no set generalisations that will fit everyone. I agree with the last post of Dread's. Are people who've divorced those which should never have been married in the first place, or did they forget to weed the flower bed too?

It's such a complicated topic. And definitely gender makes not a scrap of difference. I'm glad your mum has found so much happiness Wolfeden. I hope you find it too Anne. It looks like you already have Dread, and happiness is what matters.
When all is said and done.

 

[BVS]

As I am going through this divorce, I find this thread interesting. I agree with Dread, that relationships take work, and have been pretty angry that my husband isn't willing to try and work things out. We let our problems sit too long during the chaos of 3 kids, remodeling, moving, remodeling again. It got to the point that I demanded some peace from major projects and time to work things out and that's when he said that things will never work out.

I hope that next year I can say that this is the best thing...

Anne

It's been almost a year since the day my wife and I separated and I'm still asking myself this question. I just found out it's still not finalized. I can't imagine doing this with kids.

One thing I've noticed is that everyone says the same damn thing; either 'everything happens for a reason', 'it will work out for the best', or in my case 'at least you don't have kids', or some combination of all three. And no matter what, none of it makes you feel better.

All I can do is offer you a cyber hug and my prayers. Everyone finds their way to deal with it, some healthy some not. Hell I started a new career and moved to Chicago from Texas.

 

[BostonAnne]

One thing I've noticed is that everyone says the same damn thing; either 'everything happens for a reason', 'it will work out for the best', or in my case 'at least you don't have kids', or some combination of all three. And no matter what, none of it makes you feel better.

All I can do is offer you a cyber hug and my prayers. Everyone finds their way to deal with it, some healthy some not. Hell I started a new career and moved to Chicago from Texas.

I try and tell myself the same things! You are right that nothing makes my feel better right now, but I keep looking forward to next year.

Thanks for the support BonoVoxSupastar & Angela Harlem.

BonoVoxSupastar, how long has it been since you've moved? That was a big change! I've been fighting to not move as we just moved 2 years ago (only a few towns away) and it was really hard for my oldest son. So far things are working out.

 

[BVS]

BonoVoxSupastar, how long has it been since you've moved? That was a big change! I've been fighting to not move as we just moved 2 years ago (only a few towns away) and it was really hard for my oldest son. So far things are working out.

I've been here for two weeks...

 

[catatonic bish]

i took the easy way out, from what my ex told me. i kept asking myself if i had just made myself fall in love with him again, would it have been worth it? no, the way i saw my future with him was just...too depressing. i married him for the wrong reason. to get away from my mother. everyone knew this, but i was in denial. yeah, i was in love with him for the longest time, but when you fall out of love, thats it. you cant force someone to love back if its not in them. what was there to work thru? he was turning into someone who i couldnt stand to be around. he tried...he really did. but it just wasn't in me. he was afraid of change, and he's the type of person that if he can't have something, he'll do everything to get it, but gets bored quickly. i didnt want him to get bored of me again. over the years he's made me feel like im the reason for his slow decline in his life. i hated that feeling more than anything, like i was the reason he was unhappy. i've been divorced for a year and a half now, i think. and i really dont think marriage is in my future again. i admire those who can stay married for a long time and be in love at the same time.

 

[BostonAnne]

catatonic bish - I'm sure that's how my husband feels the same - that if you fall out of love what is there to work thru? I can't say that I don't see merit in this too. There are times where I wanted to leave him. I don't know how hard I would want to try if there weren't kids involved. I just feel like we should have tried to see if we could get through the issues. I'm not even sure if the try would have been successful, but I'm angry that the attempt wasn't being made.

 

[wolfeden]

Angela; *nod* you make sense, it's not an issue where there are ever definite answers that work for everyone...

BostonAnne: I'm sorry you have to go through it at all.. =( I hope you have a support system, friends or family or counselors or clergy or whatever... if nothing else there's zooconfessional..

 

[Basstrap]

I would just like to say that love...agape love...by definition, IS a conscious decision.

My grandparents have been married for 65 years...do you think they felt all lovey lovey that whole time? I think not...but they knew they still loved each other, they were dtermined to keep loving that person no matter what.

and even now, 65 years later, my grandfather can't bear to be out of her sight for more than a few hours.

I find conversation like this discouraging for someone like me, who has never been married. It sounds like people are saying you got a 50/50 chance of making it; either you change and grow together or you change and grow apart.

I can't wait to get married, I can't wait to have kids, and I can't wait to be sitting on a park bench with a gal I met 50 years ago.

There has to be more to somethihg like that happening than just luck and 'hearts - in- your - eyes' love

 

[Basstrap]

note: I am not giving any position on the ethics of divorce here. I think it's quite acceptable in many situations.

I am just trying to reclaim some hope for myself

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Aw well, with an attitude like that I don't see how that won't happen for you

Just for me, seeing my parents' marriage made me very cynical -the thought of marriage terrifies me.

 

[nbcrusader]

I can't wait to get married, I can't wait to have kids, and I can't wait to be sitting on a park bench with a gal I met 50 years ago.

May this come true for all relationships

 

[Wild Angel]

The worst thing is when parents fight over the kids. It's bad when they force kids to go with a parent for the whole summer even if they don't want to. I had a friend who got sent out of state every summer and holiday even though she didn't want to go, the judge forced her. Her parents still fought over the phone and every time they handed her over and picked her up so she was still traumatized. One thing you have to remember is that getting a divorce does not stop the problems that caused it in the first place. They go on in the form of bikcering lawyers, long distance fights, threats, even kidnappings and violence sometimes.