The Sad, Sad State of the Democratic Party...

[A_Wanderer]

AN ACT

To deter and punish terrorist acts in the United States and around the world, to enhance law enforcement investigatory tools, and for other purposes

that act, it was prudent (in a good way) to vote against it.

 

[AliEnvy]

I wrote it out of the rather nauseous feeling in my stomach I get every time I think about the 2008 election.

It's a bit early to be that worried...Bush has plenty of time to screw up badly enough to ensure a republican loss next time around. Not a great way to win an election and doesn't fix the problems mind you, but it's a start lol.

 

[STING2]

It's a bit early to be that worried...Bush has plenty of time to screw up badly enough to ensure a republican loss next time around. Not a great way to win an election and doesn't fix the problems mind you, but it's a start lol.

He also has plenty of time to accomplish things that would make it difficult for the Democratic Party in November 2008. It would be much better for the current low polls to be occuring in 2008 rather than now. Things change, and its more likely than not that Bush's poll numbers and standing will improve. People thought there was no way Bush could win in 2004, but he came away with the first majority win since 1988. Taking a good political situation for granted is not something I think the Democrats will do in 2008, regardless of how Bush is doing at that time.

 

[STING2]

Very good question. Here's my opinion of that list:

Wesley Clark - a tool for the Clintons; he didn't know his platform last time around and it showed. He's kind of the epitome of the Democrats' veteran parade.

Hillary Clinton - she lacks genuineness to me. She really turned me off when she, all of a sudden, started coming out against video games and became in favor of an anti-flag burning amendment. The Democratic Party has enough tools, and she just pisses me off.

Joe Lieberman - too conservative. I might as well vote for John McCain, and the voting public would think the exact same way.

Dennis Kucinich - his allure is too centered on anti-war fervor, and I don't like one-issue, hot button only candidates.

John Edwards - seems like too much of a gimmicky candidate. We're supposed to vote for him, because he's nice and pretty. His platform, however, is almost a mirror image of what you'd expect from a Democratic Party focus group. Well, we've tried that before, and it doesn't work.

John Kerry - if he'd trust his instincts more, he might be a better candidate. However, he doesn't have a great track record on that, and he emerged out of the 2004 election as damaged goods. Compare that to Al Gore who, while still losing, still emerged being rather likeable.

Tim Kaine - not sure, but he's probably better off remaining governor of Virginia right now. He hasn't been in office long enough.

Mark Warner - I'm cautious in my approach to him. I like the fact that he seems to know what he's talking about in interviews. I also like the fact that he likes to avoid the hot-button issues, because it makes him come off as less hysterical. I think he has a good chance of winning, but I do have my concerns that he's more "Republican-lite."

Howard Dean - I've wanted to like him in the past, but he always puts his foot in his mouth in very bad ways. He's best for preaching to the choir, so he's a good DNC chair.

Al Sharpton - he's run so many times that he's not considered a serious candidate.

Barack Obama - good question. I don't know much about him, but he seems to have a mind of his own. Unfortunately, he's going to be a liability considering the bigot vote and he doesn't seem to have enough of an iron fist to convince swing bigots.

I'm leaning myself towards liking Russ Feingold. He's very principled and progressive-friendly, while not being a mindless drone for the Democratic Party. He voted against the Patriot Act, being the only Democrat to have the courage to oppose a poorly written bill and was one of the few Democrats to vote for John Roberts. Now, I'm not saying I like Roberts, but it does show that he is very independently-minded without being Republican-lite and without resorting to shrill hot-button soundbites. That's my kind of candidate.

Melon

Very interesting choice with Russ Feingold. Has he indicated he is running in 2008? Have any of the Democratic talking heads mentioned him much? Whats his star power rating at the moment in the Democratic Party?

 

[melon]

Very interesting choice with Russ Feingold. Has he indicated he is running in 2008? Have any of the Democratic talking heads mentioned him much? Whats his star power rating at the moment in the Democratic Party?

Well, you have to understand. I'm making these opinions based on the individual, rather than their popularity. I'm not sure Feingold is interested in running, but there's the usual grassroots group of people pushing for him to do so.

Out of your above list, Warner is probably the most electable, even if I have unanswered questions about him.

Melon

 

[STING2]

Well, you have to understand. I'm making these opinions based on the individual, rather than their popularity. I'm not sure Feingold is interested in running, but there's the usual grassroots group of people pushing for him to do so.

Out of your above list, Warner is probably the most electable, even if I have unanswered questions about him.

Melon

I wasn't sure if something I had not heard about yet was in the works for a Feingold run. The field is wide open in both parties since no one from the current administration, Bush or Cheney, will be running in 2008. I think the Vice President running after two terms in office usually crushes any challengers. This time around, so many people will be running that its going to be difficult for many candidates to get a lot of relevant exposure. I think its going to be a must that everyone declare by September 2007 that their running, although some may wait in the hopes that announcing later would stir things up and provide some exposure they not normally have received had they announced when most of the other candidates did.

Its not as long off as many people think. The race really starts in September 2007 with hard fought battles in both parties to win the nomination.

 

[melon]

I think the Vice President running after two terms in office usually crushes any challengers.

History is kind of funny when it comes to that. VPs normally cinch the nomination, but usually lose. Bush, Sr. was the first VP to actually win the presidency in well over 100 years.

Its not as long off as many people think. The race really starts in September 2007 with hard fought battles in both parties to win the nomination.

Probably so. But, obviously, all the attention right now is on the 2006 Congressional elections. I'm sure some potential candidates might choose to run or drop out based on the outcome here.

Melon

 

[blueyedpoet]

I really wanted Clark to win the nomination last time. Bush would've had to say "General Clark, you don't know how hard war is."

 

[Sherry Darling]

I like Mark Warner a lot. Based on his governorship, he seems to understand that government can and should be a part of solutions without going nuts with huge bureaucracies. He also seems to have good instincts as to when to get tough and when and how to compromise, and he can extract nice "wins" out of "compromises" too, like he did with the VA Republicans, who are a particuarly nasty, narrow-agenda breed of right-wingers.

I like Obama, too, though he's young (in Senate-terms). *Such* an electric speaker. He can seem cautious, but I'll forgive that and watch as he grows. I hear Melon's right about the bigot-vote.

How I wish we could resurrect Paul Wellstone.

Bascially, the Dems task for 06 and 08 is much easier than they are making it (given their penchant for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory). They need to recite this like a damn broken record every single time someone puts a mic in front of them.

Wages.
Health care.
Schools.
Iraq.

Wages.
Health care
Schools
Iraq.

Not a tough sell, really. Edwards can take one for the team and lend some of the language from his "two Americas" stump speech, which I always did like.

Also, one thing I think Dean really did get right is his point that how the HELL did Kerry or the Dems in general seriously expect to win when they intentionally only competed in a fraction of our 50 states. For gods sake quit being afraid of the south, get your asses down here and talk poverty.

I even have a linky for 'em

http://www.splcenter.org/

 

[hiphop]

It crosses my mind once in a while to enter politics myself someday.

you shouldn´t.

 

[U2democrat]

I like Mark Warner a lot. Based on his governorship, he seems to understand that government can and should be a part of solutions without going nuts with huge bureaucracies. He also seems to have good instincts as to when to get tough and when and how to compromise, and he can extract nice "wins" out of "compromises" too, like he did with the VA Republicans, who are a particuarly nasty, narrow-agenda breed of right-wingers.

It's good to be a Virginia Democrat these days

I like Obama, too, though he's young (in Senate-terms). *Such* an electric speaker. He can seem cautious, but I'll forgive that and watch as he grows. I hear Melon's right about the bigot-vote.

How I wish we could resurrect Paul Wellstone.

Bascially, the Dems task for 06 and 08 is much easier than they are making it (given their penchant for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory). They need to recite this like a damn broken record every single time someone puts a mic in front of them.

Wages.
Health care.
Schools.
Iraq.

Wages.
Health care
Schools
Iraq.

Not a tough sell, really. Edwards can take one for the team and lend some of the language from his "two Americas" stump speech, which I always did like.

Also, one thing I think Dean really did get right is his point that how the HELL did Kerry or the Dems in general seriously expect to win when they intentionally only competed in a fraction of our 50 states. For gods sake quit being afraid of the south, get your asses down here and talk poverty.

I even have a linky for 'em

http://www.splcenter.org/

Amen. I don't think people understand the scale to which poverty is a huge problem in the south. Look at New Orleans...do people seriously think that poverty is JUST a problem there? Hell no. We need another Robert Kennedy...

 

[STING2]

Wages.
Health care.
Schools.
Iraq.


[/url]

The problem here is, what is the Democrats unified approach to the following issues? Iraq could certainly be a winning issue if things were to remain deadlocked or get worse there. But on wages, Health Care, and Schools, I don't see as being any better an issue for the Democrats to run on than it was 5 or 10 years ago. Regardless, developing strategies for handling each, independent of criticism of the administration or Republicans is important. Communicating their plans to solve these issues first before launching attacks against the Republicans is something that might catch peoples attention, if they find the ideas for dealing with these issues appealing.

 

[sue4u2]

I always vowed if I could ever vote him back into office, I would.

http://www.grainnet.com/info/articles.html?type=bn&ID=32903

Untill someone else can cover the issues with as much intelligence and knowledge as he does, at this point, I will be voting for Hillary Clinton.. since I don't believe at the end of the day her beliefs are that far flung from Bill's.

But I'm still listening and studying..

 

[verte76]

Abolish the Electoral College. It's outlived its usefulness.

 

[nbcrusader]

Abolish the Electoral College. It's outlived its usefulness.

Could you describe why it was useful before and how abolishing the EC would enhance our current political system?

 

[ThatU2]

It's such a beautiful thing when a free spending republican posing as a conservative enters the White House and is bombarded by mudslingling liberals. As a conservative, I'm really not happy with Dubya... Perhaps he's not caving to a bit of resistance in the war on terror and he appointed a few conservatives to the Supreme Court (Minus the Harriet Miers Debacle).. but this man is no conservative.

I'm still puzzled by the distaste over W's administration as he's more liberal than John F. Kennedy.

I will say that I am all in favor over bringing the true Virginia Senate Race... Formers Governor George Allen vs. Mark Warner to an election for the Big House. Two competent candidates who could each be effective would they be elected... Though I would like say that the US Senate might pose a bit more difficulty in being bamboozled when it comes to the totality of a surplus/deficit as was the VA Senate. D-Bags them all.

And while I'm on the topic of the VA Governor... Tim Kaine has proved himself to be nothing more than an Illegal Immigrant supporting, against his word tax raising douchebag. The man is no catholic... much less a respectable governor.... or human being.

 

[U2democrat]

Attacking the man's record is one thing, attacking him as a less respectable human being and questioning his faith is an entirely other matter. If you disagree with him on the Illegal Immigrants issue, too bad. If you don't want higher taxes, don't worry about using the roads or having them repaired. FYI-his plan does NOT raise the gas tax, the Republican senate does. While I can understand your having problems with him on the issues, I do have a problem with your questioning his integrety as a person, and calling him a "douchebag". Get to know him a little better, I think you'll change your mind about that. He's only been in office a few months, give him a chance.

 

[anitram]

I love how you see all these people hysterically up in arms about their gas taxes getting raised when we in the rest of the world have huge taxes on our gas and last I heard, our economies haven't collapsed.

 

[U2democrat]

It's the tight-gripped fiscal conservatism of Virgina...the south for that matter.

 

[BVS]

I'm still puzzled by the distaste over W's administration as he's more liberal than John F. Kennedy.

This is some funny shit, thanks for coming to FYM, you're entertaining.

You are right though Bush isn't a true conservative, but the party has seemed to have lost sight of what that means.

As far as the rest of your post...doesn't really deserve reaction. Your attacks are meritless.



***edited to say I apologize, just found out this person was banned.***

 

[melon]

I love how you see all these people hysterically up in arms about their gas taxes getting raised when we in the rest of the world have huge taxes on our gas and last I heard, our economies haven't collapsed.

People get their panties in a bunch over gas taxes for no reason. A lot of it has to do with conditioning from the GOP that taxes are the cause of everything bad in America.

Well, I happen to live between Michigan and Ohio, and while Ohio has 8 cents more per gallon in gas taxes than Michigan, Ohio's gas prices are, on average, 20 cents or more cheaper per gallon.

Gas taxes aren't that bad for one reason: they're one of the few sales taxes in this nation that's actually lumped in with the list price. As such, they've become part of the supply and demand curve, and, as such, repealing gas taxes will do nothing but give you short term relief until gas prices bounce right back up to what they were before. This time, however, oil companies will just get more profits.

Melon

 

[melon]

It's such a beautiful thing when a free spending republican posing as a conservative enters the White House and is bombarded by mudslingling liberals. As a conservative, I'm really not happy with Dubya... Perhaps he's not caving to a bit of resistance in the war on terror and he appointed a few conservatives to the Supreme Court (Minus the Harriet Miers Debacle).. but this man is no conservative.

I'm still puzzled by the distaste over W's administration as he's more liberal than John F. Kennedy.

Cute. I'm only addressing this, mainly because this person has said what many other conservatives have also said.

If you define "conservative" in terms of spending--that is, liberals spend us into a deficit and conservatives are frugal--I guess that means that Reagan was a flaming liberal himself. His budget numbers certainly reflect that.

It really kind of shows how rabid partisanship has long gotten in the way of reason for decades.

And while I'm on the topic of the VA Governor... Tim Kaine has proved himself to be nothing more than an Illegal Immigrant supporting, against his word tax raising douchebag. The man is no catholic... much less a respectable governor.... or human being.

Well, I can see why this person were banned in the first place (I have a good idea who he is based on his name here).

Melon

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Bill Clinton seems optimistic

NY Daily News

"New York to Sen. Ted Kennedy: If you want to be the center of attention at your party, don't invite Bill Clinton.

The liberal senator did give such a moving speech at the fete for his new book, "America: Back on Track," that actor Eli Wallach reached out and squeezed the hand of his wife, Anne Jackson, throughout. "In the 43 years in which I've had the honor to serve in the United States Senate, I have never seen our democracy in greater disarray, or greater turmoil," Kennedy, 74, told the gathering, which included Sen. John Kerry, Caroline Kennedy Schlossberg, former Commerce Secretary Bob Rubin, E.L. Doctorow, Gail Buckley, David Halberstam, Phyllis Newman, Joe Armstrong and all three of his sisters, Pat, Eunice and Jean.

Kennedy said his book was about the times — in which he was a key figure — "when the nation took on race, when other countries wouldn't ... we knocked down walls on gender ... the elderly ... 42 million disabled ... education ... When we had leaders. Where are we now? With the war in Iraq, and Katrina, and cronyism. It's a politics of fear." Speaking of fear, he added that he'd just had the "longest eight minutes of his life" — by going on Jon Stewart's "Daily Show."

Luckily, the Massachusetts pol finished before there was a stir at the other end of the room, which the guests flowed to like iron filings to a magnet. It was the 42nd President, being asked to sign Ted's book.

"I think the elections are a gift," Clinton told the Daily News. "The Democrats have great ideas ... I think we're going to have a great year. I'd be very surprised if we don't."

 

[Scarletwine]

Well, you have to understand. I'm making these opinions based on the individual, rather than their popularity. I'm not sure Feingold is interested in running, but there's the usual grassroots group of people pushing for him to do so.

Out of your above list, Warner is probably the most electable, even if I have unanswered questions about him.

Melon

Feingold is certainly all over the place for someone not running. He's winning most of the straw polls on the web and is certainly the netroots top choice. Mainly for his getting off his ass and standing for something. He also is giving interviews on lefty radio and websights. Love his saying the dems are in the foxholes and his characterisations of the DC Consultants getting in the way as in the Huffpo story. They pulled the same crap in Penn adn Ohio interfering with primaries.

As a side note the Ohio Republican primary is getting so nasty. Blackwell is calling Petro the pro-homo candidate (sorry their words not mine) because he opposed the last same-sex marriage amendment because we already had one and the new one was seen to affect opposite sex cohabitation. It has been found by the Ohio court to prohibit domestic violence charges against cohabitators.

 

[melon]

As a side note the Ohio Republican primary is getting so nasty. Blackwell is calling Petro the pro-homo candidate (sorry their words not mine) because he opposed the last same-sex marriage amendment because we already had one and the new one was seen to affect opposite sex cohabitation. It has been found by the Ohio court to prohibit domestic violence charges against cohabitators.

I find Ohio to be breathtakingly scary these days. It makes me glad I only work there.

Of the two, Blackwell is the ultra-evil candidate, while Petro is just evil.

Melon

 

[Scarletwine]

Melon, I couldn't agree more. Scarier yet is we now have only Deibold machines in the state bought by Blackwell.

www.Bradblog.com has great electronic voting problems. They are being diallowed all over the US and are being sued by both parties.

 

[melon]

Wow. I just saw that Blackwell ad. He's such an incomprehensible loser. I can't believe people can be THAT stupid.

Melon

 

[Scarletwine]

Today unveiled Petro's response. Rather clever as he doesn't remark to Blackwell's chargesm just gets the point of "Hypocrite" across.

Greenwald has a good piece on Feingold and what the Dem's are lacking. (As has been articulated and I agree)

"He explained that had he done that, the matter would have then been vetted by "Democratic consultants" who would have decided to kill the idea entirely before it could even be proposed on the floor. "Our party," he said, "is too beholden to Democratic consultants."


Initially, it should be noted that I have been waiting for some time to hear Feingold explain: (a) whether he did provide any advance warning to other Senators before announcing his Censure Resolution and (b) if not, as seemed to be the case, what the reasons were for not doing so. This is the first time I have seen anyone ask him this. That the truly probing questions are being asked by bloggers rather than by national journalists is becoming increasingly commonplace.

As for Feingold's explanation, it is easy to see exatly what he is describing. Democratic consultants attacked and tried to kill his resolution even after it was announced and had been widely publicized. Is there any doubt at all that had he consulted in advance with Democrats, all that he would have confronted would be efforts to dissuade him from doing anything?

As Crashing the Gate chronicles, and as Feingold implied, the Democratic Party has all but turned itself over to highly risk-adverse, overly calculating political consultants who have drained the party of ideals, passion, energy and life. Almost all of them inspire nobody, because they so transparently lack any governing principles or passion about anything. They embrace only those ideas which are guaranteed in advance to be popular, and they run from ideas they believe in and that are right whenever they are told -- by the bookish, soul-less consultants who dominate them -- that those ideas are risky or unpopular. And everyone sees this and knows this.