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Old 04-10-2006, 10:15 PM   #16
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


Calling for changes to the system (to disenfranchise those Southerners) doesn't meet the challenge.
What the hell are you talking about?
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Old 04-11-2006, 07:43 PM   #17
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Any other thoughts here? I'd be interested in other dissenting opinions/questions. They'll allow me to reevaluate and potentially tweak my line of thinking on this subject.

Melon
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Old 04-11-2006, 08:22 PM   #18
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personally, i agree with deep. the whole system is broken. our government and electoral systems maintain a nice hegemony for the status quo and it will stay this way as long as someone is profiting.
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Old 04-11-2006, 09:31 PM   #19
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I agree basically that today all politics seem to come down to is who can fall under the basic stereotypes of their party the best. I don't agree though that only Republicans vote on superficial things, if that's what you were saying lol. Everyone votes on an image, and on photo-ops etc. Superficial is what America does best

Politics just leave me annoyed. Why am I browsing this forum again?

God bless America and all the parties that want to rule it!
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Old 04-11-2006, 10:37 PM   #20
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Originally posted by melon
Any other thoughts here? I'd be interested in other dissenting opinions/questions. They'll allow me to reevaluate and potentially tweak my line of thinking on this subject.
I don't think the vision and solutions you're looking for are going to come from the current or future crop of politicians, democrats or otherwise without a non-terrorist major catastrophe (natural or otherwise) that will sufficiently jolt people out of complacency.

Katrina was a start, but not quite there yet. Coming from every direction these days are reasons to become an activist on social injustice but something tragic with widespread consequences will have to spark connection to get people roaring on the same page to enact real change.
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Old 04-11-2006, 11:12 PM   #21
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Originally posted by Se7en
the whole system is broken. our government and electoral systems maintain a nice hegemony for the status quo and it will stay this way as long as someone is profiting.
Is that a problem for Democrats, or is it a problem for the party that is in the minority?
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Old 04-11-2006, 11:49 PM   #22
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Is that a problem for Democrats, or is it a problem for the party that is in the minority?
it's a problem for the population at large.
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Old 04-11-2006, 11:56 PM   #23
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it's a problem for the population at large.
How do figure that? We've had 200+ years of the same electoral system with no meaningful attempt (or even suggestion) to change.
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Old 04-12-2006, 02:24 AM   #24
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wink

Very few Democrats are real men save a few.
See examples below



thank u
dbs
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Old 04-12-2006, 02:26 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
Any other thoughts here? I'd be interested in other dissenting opinions/questions. They'll allow me to reevaluate and potentially tweak my line of thinking on this subject.

Melon
Who among the following potential Democratic candidates do you find to be closest to the policies and philosophy you would like to see the Democratic Party adopt?

Wesley Clark
Hillary Clinton
Joe Lieberman
Dennis Kusinich
John Edwards
John Kerry
Tim Kaine
Mark Warner
Howard Dean
Al Sharpton
Barack Obama
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Old 04-12-2006, 07:58 AM   #26
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Originally posted by diamond
Very few Democrats are real men save a few.
Please, diamond, save the circus for other threads here. I want this one to remain disciplined.

Melon
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Old 04-12-2006, 08:04 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by AliEnvy
I don't think the vision and solutions you're looking for are going to come from the current or future crop of politicians, democrats or otherwise without a non-terrorist major catastrophe (natural or otherwise) that will sufficiently jolt people out of complacency.
Oh I'm not going to deny this. I didn't write this thread having a particular candidate in mind. I wrote it out of the rather nauseous feeling in my stomach I get every time I think about the 2008 election.

It crosses my mind once in a while to enter politics myself someday. However, I have other goals I want to pursue first, and with my age, time is most certainly on my side here.

Melon
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Old 04-12-2006, 08:11 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
How do figure that? We've had 200+ years of the same electoral system with no meaningful attempt (or even suggestion) to change.
It has been a major problem through most of our history. The major turning point was in the early 20th century with the Progressive movement, when they consciously made an effort to work for the people rather than business and wealthy interests. As such, we ended up with a myriad of labor laws, income taxes, ethics rules, business regulations, and antitrust legislation meant to level the playing field. "Fordism," the-then revolutionary idea that your labor should be able to afford the products that they're making (a concept that has never made it to Mexico apparently), came out of this era.

However, particularly since the Reagan era, America has been going back to all its old habits. America is no longer about the people. It's about catering to business and wealthy interests, and to hell with everyone else. After all, how many people do we have in this forum who consistently justify and defend expensive concert ticket prices, because "the marketplace demands it"? Frankly, if it's about "social Darwinism," it's not our job to give a flying fuck about the marketplace. It's our job to demand as low of prices as we can get, just as they demand as high of prices as they can get.

Social conditioning is quite interesting.

Melon
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Old 04-12-2006, 08:19 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon


Please, diamond, save the circus for other threads here. I want this one to remain disciplined.

Melon
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Old 04-12-2006, 08:40 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
Who among the following potential Democratic candidates do you find to be closest to the policies and philosophy you would like to see the Democratic Party adopt?

Wesley Clark
Hillary Clinton
Joe Lieberman
Dennis Kusinich
John Edwards
John Kerry
Tim Kaine
Mark Warner
Howard Dean
Al Sharpton
Barack Obama
Very good question. Here's my opinion of that list:

Wesley Clark - a tool for the Clintons; he didn't know his platform last time around and it showed. He's kind of the epitome of the Democrats' veteran parade.

Hillary Clinton - she lacks genuineness to me. She really turned me off when she, all of a sudden, started coming out against video games and became in favor of an anti-flag burning amendment. The Democratic Party has enough tools, and she just pisses me off.

Joe Lieberman - too conservative. I might as well vote for John McCain, and the voting public would think the exact same way.

Dennis Kucinich - his allure is too centered on anti-war fervor, and I don't like one-issue, hot button only candidates.

John Edwards - seems like too much of a gimmicky candidate. We're supposed to vote for him, because he's nice and pretty. His platform, however, is almost a mirror image of what you'd expect from a Democratic Party focus group. Well, we've tried that before, and it doesn't work.

John Kerry - if he'd trust his instincts more, he might be a better candidate. However, he doesn't have a great track record on that, and he emerged out of the 2004 election as damaged goods. Compare that to Al Gore who, while still losing, still emerged being rather likeable.

Tim Kaine - not sure, but he's probably better off remaining governor of Virginia right now. He hasn't been in office long enough.

Mark Warner - I'm cautious in my approach to him. I like the fact that he seems to know what he's talking about in interviews. I also like the fact that he likes to avoid the hot-button issues, because it makes him come off as less hysterical. I think he has a good chance of winning, but I do have my concerns that he's more "Republican-lite."

Howard Dean - I've wanted to like him in the past, but he always puts his foot in his mouth in very bad ways. He's best for preaching to the choir, so he's a good DNC chair.

Al Sharpton - he's run so many times that he's not considered a serious candidate.

Barack Obama - good question. I don't know much about him, but he seems to have a mind of his own. Unfortunately, he's going to be a liability considering the bigot vote and he doesn't seem to have enough of an iron fist to convince swing bigots.

I'm leaning myself towards liking Russ Feingold. He's very principled and progressive-friendly, while not being a mindless drone for the Democratic Party. He voted against the Patriot Act, being the only Democrat to have the courage to oppose a poorly written bill and was one of the few Democrats to vote for John Roberts. Now, I'm not saying I like Roberts, but it does show that he is very independently-minded without being Republican-lite and without resorting to shrill hot-button soundbites. That's my kind of candidate.

Melon
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