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Old 07-30-2006, 03:22 PM   #31
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What does life expectancy have to do with the price of tea in China? We're talking about the environment. I don't have more faith in human creativity because the most creative thing humans have done is come up with different ways of polluting the planet.
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Old 07-30-2006, 03:53 PM   #32
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What about the article INDY500 posted about the "global cooling" scares of the 1970's, a mere 30 years ago. Were they wrong? Does anyone have any thoughts on what happened to that scenario? Is it possible that the concerns about global warming might end up like the concerns about global cooling?

Also, is it possible that even if the global warming scenario is true, that it will happen gradually over so much time that humanity will also gradually adjust to those changes without an apparent "day after tomorrow" flooding of Manhattan scenario?
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Old 07-30-2006, 04:34 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean
What about the article INDY500 posted about the "global cooling" scares of the 1970's, a mere 30 years ago. Were they wrong? Does anyone have any thoughts on what happened to that scenario? Is it possible that the concerns about global warming might end up like the concerns about global cooling?

Also, is it possible that even if the global warming scenario is true, that it will happen gradually over so much time that humanity will also gradually adjust to those changes without an apparent "day after tomorrow" flooding of Manhattan scenario?
Answer to first question: yes, it's entirely possible that the concerns about global warming might end up like the concerns about global cooling. They were apparently wrong.
Answer to second question: Again, yes. We may be able to adjust and there be no trauma.
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Old 07-30-2006, 09:41 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean
What about the article INDY500 posted about the "global cooling" scares of the 1970's, a mere 30 years ago. Were they wrong? Does anyone have any thoughts on what happened to that scenario? Is it possible that the concerns about global warming might end up like the concerns about global cooling?
You can ask the same question regarding all the other scares that were propigated in the last 30 years. For example, acid rain was suppose to strip all foliage from our trees. Once the public stopped buying into the scare, we move on to the next one.
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Old 07-30-2006, 09:51 PM   #35
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
You can ask the same question regarding all the other scares that were propigated in the last 30 years. For example, acid rain was suppose to strip all foliage from our trees. Once the public stopped buying into the scare, we move on to the next one.
What about the Red scare and the Islamofascist scare?

They were creations of the librul media too, I expect?
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Old 07-31-2006, 12:17 AM   #36
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Originally posted by verte76
I don't have more faith in human creativity because the most creative thing humans have done is come up with different ways of polluting the planet.
You should, here's why.

AMBIENT U.S. AIR POLLUTION LEVELS
Years 1976-2002

Ozone--down 31%
Sulfur Dioxides--down 70%
Carbon monoxide--down 75%
Lead--down 98% (due to unleaded gas)
Particulates--down 28%

America has become far more environmentally efficient producing six times more output per ton of emission than we did prior to WWII. Consider this as well, prior to 1900 one of every five deaths was attributable to contaminants in our drinking water. Today, once polluted U. S. lakes and streams are now usable for fishing, recreation and safe for drinking. In addition, land management techniques have dramatically increased crop yields per acre and extracting oil and coal from the ground now leaves virtually no ecological damage.

Prudent government regulations and higher standards are certainly to be given some credit but of much more importance is our free-market economy which protects private property rights, produces wealth and encourages innovation. Here's the dirty (pardon the pun) little secret. Industrialization, population growth and capitalism are NOT the enemies of the environment...but it's protectors, because freer, better educated and wealthier societies can--and do--devote more resources to leaving the planet a cleaner and richer place for the next generation.

P.s. And pesticides actually make us healthier.
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Old 07-31-2006, 12:26 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by INDY500
AMBIENT U.S. AIR POLLUTION LEVELS
Years 1976-2002

Ozone--down 31%
Sulfur Dioxides--down 70%
Carbon monoxide--down 75%
Lead--down 98% (due to unleaded gas)
Particulates--down 28%
There's a key gas missing from that list, and that's carbon dioxide. Where that's important is in conjunction with sulfur dioxide, which is a global coolant. I think one of the ironies of the last century is that we had, essentially, two pollutants that were cancelling out each other's effects. But now that we've cut out the global cooling pollutant, the global warming pollutants are going to be more successful.

Melon
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Old 07-31-2006, 12:29 AM   #38
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Global warming or not, we're consuming resources at an unsustainable rate, and our economic prosperity is contingent on the whims of unstable Middle East dictatorships and a communist nation that's hellbent on growth, no matter what the cost. I'd say that environmental interests and national security interests here are quite related, so even if you don't buy into global warming, the solution to it will also help our long-term economic growth.

Melon
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Old 07-31-2006, 11:58 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by INDY500


You should, here's why.

AMBIENT U.S. AIR POLLUTION LEVELS
Years 1976-2002

Ozone--down 31%
Sulfur Dioxides--down 70%
Carbon monoxide--down 75%
Lead--down 98% (due to unleaded gas)
Particulates--down 28%

America has become far more environmentally efficient producing six times more output per ton of emission than we did prior to WWII. Consider this as well, prior to 1900 one of every five deaths was attributable to contaminants in our drinking water. Today, once polluted U. S. lakes and streams are now usable for fishing, recreation and safe for drinking. In addition, land management techniques have dramatically increased crop yields per acre and extracting oil and coal from the ground now leaves virtually no ecological damage.

Prudent government regulations and higher standards are certainly to be given some credit but of much more importance is our free-market economy which protects private property rights, produces wealth and encourages innovation. Here's the dirty (pardon the pun) little secret. Industrialization, population growth and capitalism are NOT the enemies of the environment...but it's protectors, because freer, better educated and wealthier societies can--and do--devote more resources to leaving the planet a cleaner and richer place for the next generation.

P.s. And pesticides actually make us healthier.


and you can thank all those duplicitous scientists and frog-licking hippies you derided in your previous posts for the lakes you now enjoy.
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Old 07-31-2006, 12:23 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
Global warming or not, we're consuming resources at an unsustainable rate, and our economic prosperity is contingent on the whims of unstable Middle East dictatorships and a communist nation that's hellbent on growth, no matter what the cost. I'd say that environmental interests and national security interests here are quite related, so even if you don't buy into global warming, the solution to it will also help our long-term economic growth.

Melon
Yes, how much sense does it make to fight a war in which you're literally funding both sides? A great reason for increased domestic oil production from sources off our coasts and in Anwar Alaska. But predictably, guess who's against that?
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Old 07-31-2006, 12:29 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by INDY500


Yes, how much sense does it make to fight a war in which you're literally funding both sides? A great reason for increased domestic oil production from sources off our coasts and in Anwar Alaska. But predictably, guess who's against that?


ANWAR will give us, at most, 30 months of oil.

too great a cost, for such a negligiable benefit.

i'll say it again: GAS TAX!!!!

get people to consume less, and demand greater fuel efficiency from their vehicles, that's the free market solution you and A_W are itching for.

it's really the best idea ever.
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Old 07-31-2006, 01:34 PM   #42
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Originally posted by Irvine511




and you can thank all those duplicitous scientists and frog-licking hippies you derided in your previous posts for the lakes you now enjoy.
Science and technology I champion, it's propaganda dressed in a white lab coat I'm dubious off. As for the frog-licking hippies, I'll take this

over today's radical environmentalists which are nothing more than

Green on the outside, red on the inside.
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Old 07-31-2006, 02:21 PM   #43
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Originally posted by INDY500
Green on the outside, red on the inside.




too bad he's not around:

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Old 07-31-2006, 02:37 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

i'll say it again: GAS TAX!!!!

get people to consume less, and demand greater fuel efficiency from their vehicles, that's the free market solution you and A_W are itching for.

it's really the best idea ever.
Or...rather than a gas tax which goes into government pockets, keep stirring it up in the Middle East so that it looks like free market forces driving up prices 300% in the past 3 years.

I wonder if the oil companies that are swimming in billions of windfall cash are investing in new technology for energy.
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Old 07-31-2006, 02:45 PM   #45
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Originally posted by AliEnvy


Or...rather than a gas tax which goes into government pockets, keep stirring it up in the Middle East so that it looks like free market forces driving up prices 300% in the past 3 years.

I wonder if the oil companies that are swimming in billions of windfall cash are investing in new technology for energy.

a gas tax which forces car companies to deliver what the consumers will demand -- 100 mpg or more.

it's the free market that gave us the 8 mpg Hummer that stirs up the Middle East so much.
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