The Religious Right and the Environment

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melon

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I'm already hearing it: accusations of being "slanted" or "biased," and, as such, some people won't read it. Well, I already acknowledge that everyone has a bias, so let's get past that. And if there's certain words that push your buttons, again, try and get past certain words and try to look at the article as a whole.

The question, I guess, is whether one would agree that the crux of this argument is correct: that the Religious Right and, by extension, the GOP don't care about saving the environment, because the world is going to end anyway in a short period of time, so we might as well blow it all! Plus, ecological disasters that may be attributed to "global warming" may be a "good thing," as it might be signs of "the end," so why would we want to stop it? :huh:

http://www.grist.org/news/maindish/2004/10/27/scherer-christian/

Many End-Timers believe that until Jesus' return, the Lord will provide. In America's Providential History, a popular reconstructionist high-school history textbook, authors Mark Beliles and Stephen McDowell tell us that: "The secular or socialist has a limited resource mentality and views the world as a pie ... that needs to be cut up so everyone can get a piece." However, "the Christian knows that the potential in God is unlimited and that there is no shortage of resources in God's Earth. The resources are waiting to be tapped." In another passage, the writers explain: "While many secularists view the world as overpopulated, Christians know that God has made the earth sufficiently large with plenty of resources to accommodate all of the people."

Natural-resource depletion and overpopulation, then, are not concerns for End-Timers -- and nor are other ecological catastrophes, which are viewed by dispensationalists as presaging the Great Tribulation. Support for this view comes from an 11-word passage in Matthew 24:7: "[T]here shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places." Other End-Timers see suggestions of ecological meltdown in Revelation's four horsemen of the Apocalypse -- War, Famine, Pestilence, and Death -- and they cite a verse mentioning costly wheat, barley, and oil as foretelling food and fossil-fuel shortages. During the End Time, the four horsemen shall be "given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth." Some End-Timers note that Revelation 8:8-11 predicts a fiery mountain falling into the sea and causing great destruction, followed by a blazing star plummeting from the sky. This star is called "Wormwood," which dispensationalists say translates loosely in Ukrainian as "Chernobyl."

A plethora of End-Time preachers, tracts, films, and websites hawk environmental cataclysm as Good News -- a harbinger of the imminent Second Coming. Hal Lindsey's 1970 End-Time "non-fiction" work, The Late Great Planet Earth, is the classic of the genre; the movie version pummels viewers with stock footage of nuclear blasts, polluting smokestacks, raging floods, and killer bees. Likewise, dispensationalist author Tim LaHaye's "Left Behind" novels -- at one point selling 1.5 million copies per month -- weave ecological disaster into an action-adventure account of prophesy.

That's just an excerpt. The whole article is in the link.

Thoughts?

Melon
 
:lol: Insane.

I love how they preach LIFE, LIFE, LIFE but don't give a shit about the quality of life.

Sidenote: I just saw Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. on 'Real Time' tonight and saw one of the best arguments on the environment that I've seen in a long time. He said if we just raise our overall mileage per gallon in this country by 7% we can totally eliminate our oil dependence in the mideast. His whole argument was amazing. Please watch this or maybe I can find a transcript later.

Sorry Melon if I went off a little.:reject:
 
This is an area which I would like to see the republican party take more action in.
 
My friend is every bit a member of the "Christian right" and she's very concerned about the environment. I don't put as much consideration into it as she does, admittedly, but I do recycle and I don't litter.
 
Yet... there's plenty of liberals who want more drug legalization. Couldn't that be bad for the environment? It works both ways.
 
Marijuana

The illegal growth and cultivation of marijuana has destroyed and contaminated thousands of acres of public lands in America. In fact, more than 2,500,000 marijuana plants have been found and eradicated on National Forest lands since 1997. The damage begins when marijuana farmers burn off native vegetation, destroying natural wildlife habitats. Some growers clear cultivation areas with chain saws and spread fertilizers and pesticides. The arsenic-based poisons kill small animals and rodents and in turn, the larger animals and birds that consume them, devastating the food chain and area water supplies.

Often, tons of trash and high concentrations of human waste are left behind by smugglers, who come to the U.S. to care for the crops. This impacts wildlife, vegetation and water quality along rivers and streams. It also detracts from natural, scenic qualities and can affect human and animal health from spread of bacteria and disease.

Methamphetamine

Methamphetamine or "meth" labs, using inexpensive over-the-counter chemicals to process the drug, can cause soil and water contamination, threaten fish and stream wildlife and create fires.

For each pound of "meth" produced, five to six pounds of hazardous waste are generated, posing immediate and long-term environmental and health risks. For example, National Forest Service employees who have been in contact with meth dump sites have become ill (remember, this could be the mom or dad of someone you know). The waste contains chemicals such as lye, red phosphorus, hydriodic acid and iodine. Some of this hazardous waste is dumped directly into domestic water wells, farmland and mine shafts, creating broader public health risks from contaminated water.

In California, for example, chemicals from large meth lab dump sites have killed livestock, contaminated streams, and destroyed large areas of trees and vegetation in that state.

Cocaine

The U.S. consumes nearly 260 metric tons of cocaine every year, which is grown and processed in the fragile environments of South America. The result has been the destruction of almost 6 million acres of fragile tropical forest over the past 20 years in the Andean region of South America, one of the planet’s most valuable ecosystems.

Each year, millions of pounds of chemicals are used to process coca and then dumped into waterways or onto the ground in Colombia, Peru and Bolivia. Terrorist groups in Colombia linked to the narcotics trade frequently bomb oil pipelines resulting in toxic spills. One pipeline has been attacked more than 700 times since 1986 resulting in an overall spillage of 2.2 million barrels of oil into the surrounding ecosystem. In Colombia, which contains roughly 10 percent of the Earth’s biodiversity, roughly three million acres of tropical rain forest have been ruined by the coca trade. In Peru, ten percent of the total rainforest destruction in the last century is due to illegal drugs.

The rapidly eroding rainforests may mean that scientists may not find potential cures for deadly diseases, (one in six prescription drugs has a tropical source). The loss of rainforests also contributes to changes in the global climate. Pollution of waterways will perhaps permanently eradicate species of plants and animals, in addition to releasing carcinogens into drinking water for generations to come.
 
Well, just to note, I don't support drug legalization for a variety of reasons. Environmental concerns are certainly one of them.

Melon
 
melon said:
Well, just to note, I don't support drug legalization for a variety of reasons. Environmental concerns are certainly one of them.

Melon
:up: Nor do I. I hate drugs.
 
Well most of your reasons are because they are illegal, i.e. those things wouldn't happen if they were legal. I honestly only think natual drugs should be legal, and the legalization will actually help the environment.
 
Do Miss America said:
Well most of your reasons are because they are illegal, i.e. those things wouldn't happen if they were legal. I honestly only think natual drugs should be legal, and the legalization will actually help the environment.
I don't buy it. Illegal drug use will increase birth defects, car accidents, continue to pollute the environment, and cause preventable illnesses. How would that help the environment?
 
Macfistowannabe said:
Illegal drug use will increase birth defects
Marijuana has less birth defects than cigarettes. Pot is not addictive, so for a responsible adult it's easy to quit while pregnant.
Macfistowannabe said:

car accidents,
No more than alcohol.
Macfistowannabe said:

continue to pollute the environment, and cause preventable illnesses. How would that help the environment?
I'm not sure what disease you are talking about. But as far as the environment if hemp is legal it can be used to make paper, cloth, rope, and many other products with much more efficiency than the mean we use now.


I'd much rather use hemp crops to make paper than trees. It's a no brainer.
 
Do Miss America said:
Marijuana has less birth defects than cigarettes. Pot is not addictive, so for a responsible adult it's easy to quit while pregnant.
Less, but it will add up. Pot is addictive, but tobacco is more addictive. I wouldn't call druggies "responsible", and it's unlikely they would have any desire to quit.

Do Miss America said:
No more than alcohol.
Which would change if we place hallucinogens in the mouths of drivers legally. Drinking and driving is a HUGE problem, why risk making it a bigger problem?

It's irresponsible. We allowed millions to buzz out on liquor, then we tried to take it back. Once something like drug legalization gets half that impact, there's no turning back. We could be screwing ourselves over for generations.
 
I like alcohol, and, unlike most "drugs," it's safe when used moderately.

I think tobacco products should be banned. They're harmful even in small amounts.

And pot is not addictive. I still don't like it, but out of all the "illegal drugs," pot is where I'm slightly tolerant. Anything else, no.

Melon
 
Macfistowannabe said:
Less, but it will add up. Pot is addictive, but tobacco is more addictive. I wouldn't call druggies "responsible", and it's unlikely they would have any desire to quit.
"Druggies" your bias is deep. The fact is; marijuana is less harmful than cigarettes or alcohol, short term or long term. And it's less addictive than alcohol both(technically physical addiction hasn't been proven).


Macfistowannabe said:
Which would change if we place hallucinogens in the mouths of drivers legally. Drinking and driving is a HUGE problem, why risk making it a bigger problem?[/B]
You wouldn't place them in drivers legally. Driving under the influence would still be against the law.

Sounds like you want prohibition.


Macfistowannabe said:

It's irresponsible. We allowed millions to buzz out on liquor, then we tried to take it back. Once something like drug legalization gets half that impact, there's no turning back. We could be screwing ourselves over for generations.

How? It is so much less destructive than alcohol, cigarettes, and most pain killers which college students are using for recreational use.


But this thread is about the environment. You haven't brought up one good point about that, so if you have anything to add about that do it here otherwise start a new thread.
 
Do Miss America said:
:lol: Insane.

I love how they preach LIFE, LIFE, LIFE but don't give a shit about the quality of life.

Sidenote: I just saw Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. on 'Real Time' tonight and saw one of the best arguments on the environment that I've seen in a long time. He said if we just raise our overall mileage per gallon in this country by 7% we can totally eliminate our oil dependence in the mideast. His whole argument was amazing. Please watch this or maybe I can find a transcript later.

Sorry Melon if I went off a little.:reject:


I watched this tonight too, it was very good :yes:!
 
melon said:

The question, I guess, is whether one would agree that the crux of this argument is correct: that the Religious Right and, by extension, the GOP don't care about saving the environment, because the world is going to end anyway in a short period of time, so we might as well blow it all! Plus, ecological disasters that may be attributed to "global warming" may be a "good thing," as it might be signs of "the end," so why would we want to stop it? :huh:

It's one possible explaination I suppose. I'm religious (probably to the extent that you're implying) and a Republican. I'm not much of an environmentalist. For me it has nothing to do with religion. First of all there are other issues that are more important to me, like world poverty, health care, and shitty education. That, and I've know some staunch environmentalists and unfortunately they've all been so bleeding heart that they don't have their own facts straight and think I'm a heartless person b/c I'm not a tree hugger. They've also been some of the more wasteful people I've know. No, I'm not really into going to protests and environmentalist rallies like them, but hey I don't drive cars two blocks to school and I have three bins full of materials to recycle when it's trash day. My dad works in the lumber and veneer business and he's also a Christian who values preserving the environment, so he's done his best to reconcile the two. A lot of these environmentalists I bumped into during high school don't realize the benefits of certain methods of deforestation. Now, I don't know exactly how this works scientifically, but my dad once explained to me that he'll take down these older or unhealthy trees that will fall soon anyway and there's something about how they decompose that is actually bad and slows the re-growth of the forest. That and they plant twice as many trees as they take down. OK, so maybe I'm going off on a tangent. I realize this is only a tiny slice of "environmentalism" as a whole. To answer your question from my perspective, sure Republicans are less concerned about the environment, but I've never met one that was this way b/c they thought the world was going to end soon.
 
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Do Miss America said:
"Druggies" your bias is deep.
Yes it is. They pollute the environment with their egocentric lifestyles at the risk of harming themselves and others. They belong behind bars. No sympathy for their stupidity. They knowingly break the law, and that is wrong.

Do Miss America said:
Sounds like you want prohibition.
We already tried prohibition and we got screwed. Thank you.
 
Macfistowannabe said:
Yes it is. They pollute the environment with their egocentric lifestyles at the risk of harming themselves and others. They belong behind bars. No sympathy for their stupidity. They knowingly break the law, and that is wrong.

We already tried prohibition and we got screwed. Thank you.

Well you're way off and you're way off topic, so like I said if you want to discuss this I'd suggest another thread.
 
Recall the natural fire that was allowed to torch Yellowstone Park in 1988, causing $150 million in damages and destroying 1 million acres of trees. Environmentalists qua Park Officials prohibited firefighting for weeks because the fire was "natural" and "fire is a benign rather than a malignant force." According to the New York Times (Sept. 22, 1988): "They said they were trying to protect pristine areas from the destructive effects of bulldozers, fire engines and irrigation pipes." If nature is sacred, fighting natural forest fires is also a sin.
:coocoo:
 
A study by the Heartland Institute estimates that the DEP (Department of "Environmental Protection") proposal would cost consumer and business losses that could reach $12.9 billion if implemented in New Jersey. Indeed, State revenue losses could reach $20.9 billion. Not only is New Jersey already deeply in debt, the NJDEP wants to plunge it even deeper in debt.
:coocoo:
 
here's another angle on this issue ...



Hawks, Hippies, Holies
The New Green Coalition

A couple of decades ago, a young Tory wanna-be policy analyst wrote a pamphlet called "Greening the Tories." It was an attempt to argue that being in favor of environmental protection and energy conservation was not necessarily a liberal or statist idea. Conserving is, well, conservative. Keeping the air clean, cars efficient, and energy affordable benefits everyone, regardless of ideology. Why, in any case, should conservatives be so hostile to environmentalism? If done right - with market incentives and smarter technology rather than with crude regulation - it could be a conservative vote-winner.

Well, the idea didn't get very far. I wrote the pamphlet more as a thought-experiment than as a blue-print. But if you live long enough, even too-clever-by-half post-adolescents can find solace. So here's a simple question: who do you think are now advocates for new energy technologies and environmental regulation? Here's the surprising answer from America: a motley collection of neo-con hawks, Christian evangelicals and right-wing isolationists.

Take the hawks first. Some key advocates for the war against Saddam Hussein - among them the neocon fire-breather, Frank Gaffney, and former CIA chief, James Woolsey - have come out as born-again conservationists, dedicated to promoting green technologies that can liberate the U.S. from near-complete reliance on oil imports. The primary motivation is to reduce Saudi support for terror, funded in large part by America's petrol-hungry economy. In Gaffney's words: "It is neither in the United States' strategic, national security nor economic interests for this country and other industrialized nations to continue relying on imported oil from those who wish to do us harm." And it's a little easier for Americans to cut down on oil consumption than to send hundreds of thousands of troops to reform every oil-based Arab autocracy out there.

Now take the evangelicals. As the Christian right matures, it has begun to see global issues in surprising ways. Evangelicals have been prime movers in the Bush administration's AIDS policy in Africa, in policies designed to end human slavery, and even stopping the genocide in Darfur. Lately, many evangelicals have also begun campaigning for what they call "creation-care." "Enivronmentalism" sounded too hippie for their tastes. Humans, they argue, have a duty to be good stewards of God's world. And that means energy conservation. "The environment is a values issue," the Rev. Ted Haggard, president of the 30 million-member National Association of Evangelicals, recently told the Washington Post. "There are significant and compelling theological reasons why it should be a banner issue for the Christian right." The evangelical magazine, Christianity Today, editorialized last autumn that "Christians should make it clear to governments and businesses that we are willing to adapt our lifestyles and support steps towards changes that protect our environment."

A hefty proportion of the American right - despite the caricatures in the European press - is leery of foreign entanglement as well. And isolationist tendencies lead inexorably to the product that most ties the U.S. to the turmoil-ridden Middle East: oil. The tipping point may well be the recent - and possibly permanent - hike in the price of petrol. A USA Today poll last week found 58 percent of Americans saying that higher petrol prices are eating into their standard of living. Expensive petrol may also be behind the recent slide in the president's approval rating - to a historic low for re-elected presidents.

These groups have now allied with more traditional environmental lobbies to form a new organization called "Set America Free." (They have a website at www.setamericafree.org.) What do they propose? There are competing ideas. Among them: tax credits for researching new forms of energy; more government research into alternatives to oil; more nuclear power; more exploitation of domestic oil and coal reserves; higher taxes on petrol; encouragement of hybrid car technology. Newsweek's Fareed Zakaria recently called for direct presidential action: "Tomorrow, President Bush could make the following speech: 'It is now possible to build cars that are powered by a combination of electricity and alcohol-based fuels, with petroleum as only one element among many. My administration is going to put in place a series of policies that will ensure that in four years, the average new American car will get 300 miles per gallon of petroleum. And I fully expect in this period to see cars in the United States that get 500 miles per gallon.'"

The beauty of this policy is that it backs both more exploration of domestic oil and a ramped up effort to popularize hybrid cars and other forms of energy. The Middle East's troubles have built support for this. But so has the growing understanding that oil may be headed for a permanent, more expensive plateau as China consumes more and more of it. The whole world stands to gain. Not only would the policy switch reduce carbon gases that may well be contributing to global warming. It would also help defuse a looming global super-power fight between China and the U.S. over oil supplies.

Does this movement have a future? That's hard to tell. John Kerry made energy independence a key plank of his presidential campaign - and, of course, he lost. What was needed was a more bipartisan approach, one that appealed both to liberal environmentalists and conservative hawks. Now we have the first signs of one, with grass roots power from the bases of both political parties - greens for the Democrats, evangelicals for the Republicans. I have to say I'm doubtful whether the critical impetus for new research and development - a big hike in gas taxes - will ever be implemented in the near future. But more federal research, presidential leadership, and some new tax credits cannot hurt. Hybrid cars are beginning to catch on - and more expensive gas is beginning to make them more economical for ordinary Americans.

Ideas can last for decades without coming to fruition. It takes luck and a fortuitous combination of factors to bring them to life. Between them, the Christian and neocon right, the enviro-left, and the mullahs of the Middle East may finally achieve what a young Thatcherite once dreamt of. The geo-neocon-green movement may have arrived. And just in time.

April 9, 2005, Sunday Times.
 
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