"The real reasons America is invading Iraq" & What are the real motives for the war? - Page 3 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-24-2003, 11:12 AM   #31
Acrobat
 
cloudimani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Ireland
Posts: 483
Local Time: 12:36 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by speedracer

Have you thought out the full ramifications of this statement?
Well if America start illegally invading countries with the sole prupose of overthrowing regimes that pose no threat to them its an extremely worrying precedent. I mean where does it stop? America is making decisions on the behalf of the people of a whole country that is not under their control. Who decides what regimes need changing? Who decides it is in fact lawful for the likes of America to barge into other countries and install a leader who is friendly to their point of view in place of one who is not

What if you turn the whole thing around? What if an outside power decides they dont like the setup in America and they'd like to shake things up a bit? Is that ok? No I didnt think so
__________________

__________________
cloudimani is offline  
Old 03-24-2003, 11:32 AM   #32
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
speedracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: MD
Posts: 7,572
Local Time: 07:36 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by cloudimani


Well if America start illegally invading countries with the sole prupose of overthrowing regimes that pose no threat to them its an extremely worrying precedent. I mean where does it stop? America is making decisions on the behalf of the people of a whole country that is not under their control. Who decides what regimes need changing? Who decides it is in fact lawful for the likes of America to barge into other countries and install a leader who is friendly to their point of view in place of one who is not

What if you turn the whole thing around? What if an outside power decides they dont like the setup in America and they'd like to shake things up a bit? Is that ok? No I didnt think so
I don't really buy the slippery-slope argument in this case. That is, I really don't think other countries are going to change their behavior based on what we're doing right now. They're going to continue to make decisions based on their own interests and the forseeable consequences of their actions.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/887171.asp?0si=-
__________________

__________________
speedracer is offline  
Old 03-25-2003, 08:31 AM   #33
Blue Crack Addict
 
U2girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: slovenija
Posts: 20,951
Local Time: 01:36 PM
Well how much of Saudi Arabia is the Holy soil? Can't the US troops be moved from that exact spot?

The US troops are there to ensure the "right" regime is in place, also because of US economic interests. Even if you had democratic elections (how likely is that in Islam world?), it can still happen that
a) fundamentalists win or
b) it gets overthrown (didn't Homeini overthrow a democratic leader in Iran?)
__________________
U2girl is offline  
Old 03-25-2003, 09:06 AM   #34
ONE
love, blood, life
 
FizzingWhizzbees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: the choirgirl hotel
Posts: 12,614
Local Time: 12:36 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by speedracer


I don't really buy the slippery-slope argument in this case. That is, I really don't think other countries are going to change their behavior based on what we're doing right now. They're going to continue to make decisions based on their own interests and the forseeable consequences of their actions.
But if one of the forseable consequences of their actions is invasion by the US then don't you think that can affect their decision making? Don't you think that if leaders have seen what devastation the war on Iraq is causing, they'll be less likely to engage in actions which could lead to the US doing the same to them?
__________________
FizzingWhizzbees is offline  
Old 03-25-2003, 09:12 AM   #35
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 04:36 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by U2girl
Well how much of Saudi Arabia is the Holy soil? Can't the US troops be moved from that exact spot?
Depends on which Muslim you ask. Some think it is innapropriate for "infidels" to be in the region, let alone Saudi Arabia.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 03-25-2003, 11:08 AM   #36
The Fly
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Russia
Posts: 210
Local Time: 03:36 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by speedracer


...Israelis don't get blown up by homicide bombers and making sure Islamist psychopaths don't fly planes into our office buildings.
Those people were not psychopaths. Psychopaths would have never been able to plan and implement what those people did. But it is an interesting question: even if they were religious fanatics, why their fanatism turned against the US? Those people were ready to sacrifice their lifes to do maximum damage to the US. Why?
And a question I would like to address to all those pro-war people: you say it is about liberating Iraq, bringing democracy there etc, so are YOU ready to go there and sacrifice your lives for the sake of Iraqi people?
__________________
ALEXRUS is offline  
Old 03-25-2003, 11:19 AM   #37
The Fly
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Russia
Posts: 210
Local Time: 03:36 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by deep


To protect the regimes (Saudi and Kuwait) from being over thrown by there own people.
Exactly
__________________
ALEXRUS is offline  
Old 03-25-2003, 11:25 AM   #38
The Fly
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Russia
Posts: 210
Local Time: 03:36 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by cloudimani


Who decides what regimes need changing? Who decides it is in fact lawful for the likes of America to barge into other countries
America decides.
We run into the arms of America...
__________________
ALEXRUS is offline  
Old 03-25-2003, 12:25 PM   #39
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,272
Local Time: 07:36 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by speedracer
Possibly a good thing as well, because if it weren't so, there's a good chance that there'd be two even more fundamentalist Islamist regimes in place.
Many Middle East analysts have said that if regimes in places like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Yemen, etc. were overthrown, the people would elect/install fundamentalist Islamic governments.

My question to you is that if the US wants a democracy in the middle east, and the result of democratic elections are such that a fundamentalist government is chosen, then what? Do the people not have a right to elect whomever they want? Or is it only a democracy insofar as the new government must toe the Washington party line?

I am not sure we can have it both ways. Either the people of the Arab world get to choose their representatives democratically (no matter how much you disagree with what these representatives stand for) or they do not. And if the latter is true, then there is no democracy we are bringing to them at all. These are not questions that will go away. Bush needs to ask himself what democracy in that region really means.
__________________
anitram is online now  
Old 03-25-2003, 12:33 PM   #40
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Basstrap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 10,726
Local Time: 10:06 AM
interesting viewpoint my political science professor brought up (former american)

democracies are easier to trade with, especially when you set up the leader and groom him/her
__________________
Basstrap is offline  
Old 03-25-2003, 05:34 PM   #41
New Yorker
 
sharky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,637
Local Time: 07:36 AM
hmm interesting Basstrap.

As for earlier, 46% of Americans think that most of the hijackers were Iraqi. Only 10% know where Afghanistan is on a map of the world. If you want, I can find the stories that state this. This is real.

I'm saying Americans are just out and out dumb. But how many Americans read a newspaper? Watch nightly news? How many of them have make decisions about this war based on actual FACTS and educated themselves?

a little over 50% of Americans who can vote actually voted in the 2000 presidential election. What does that tell you about the other 50%? They're protesting the choices or they don't care?

Most Americans are not like us. They're more concerned about the fact that Joe Millionaire and Zora aren't dating anymore. 47 million Americans watched Joe Millionaire. More Americans watched the Oscars than the war coverage on other networks combined. what does that tell you about the way Americans are making their decisions about this war?
__________________
sharky is offline  
Old 03-25-2003, 05:42 PM   #42
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
speedracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: MD
Posts: 7,572
Local Time: 07:36 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by ALEXRUS


And a question I would like to address to all those pro-war people: you say it is about liberating Iraq, bringing democracy there etc, so are YOU ready to go there and sacrifice your lives for the sake of Iraqi people?
I thought this question was ruled out of bounds by the moderators. It is roughly equivalent to my asking you if you're willing to be a human shield for Iraq.

But I'll answer anyway. I turned in my draft card. I'm ready to go if called up.
__________________
speedracer is offline  
Old 03-25-2003, 05:46 PM   #43
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,655
Local Time: 06:36 AM
Quote:
As for earlier, 46% of Americans think that most of the hijackers were Iraqi. Only 10% know where Afghanistan is on a map of the world. If you want, I can find the stories that state this. This is real.
I'm saying Americans are just out and out dumb. But how many Americans read a newspaper? Watch nightly news? How many of them have make decisions about this war based on actual FACTS and educated themselves?
I really hope that you meant to put a "not" in that sentence and overlooked that. Americans are not dumb. But unfortunately there's a large percentage that are very much brain washed right now. Which may be even more dangerous.
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 03-25-2003, 05:48 PM   #44
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
speedracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: MD
Posts: 7,572
Local Time: 07:36 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by anitram


Many Middle East analysts have said that if regimes in places like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Yemen, etc. were overthrown, the people would elect/install fundamentalist Islamic governments.

My question to you is that if the US wants a democracy in the middle east, and the result of democratic elections are such that a fundamentalist government is chosen, then what? Do the people not have a right to elect whomever they want? Or is it only a democracy insofar as the new government must toe the Washington party line?

I am not sure we can have it both ways. Either the people of the Arab world get to choose their representatives democratically (no matter how much you disagree with what these representatives stand for) or they do not. And if the latter is true, then there is no democracy we are bringing to them at all. These are not questions that will go away. Bush needs to ask himself what democracy in that region really means.
I really doubt that a fundamentalist Islamist regime would ever be elected democratically. Such a regime could certainly take over by force. Can you persuade me otherwise?
__________________
speedracer is offline  
Old 03-25-2003, 05:51 PM   #45
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 07:36 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by ALEXRUS

And a question I would like to address to all those pro-war people: you say it is about liberating Iraq, bringing democracy there etc, so are YOU ready to go there and sacrifice your lives for the sake of Iraqi people?

1st Many people who post here have or are prior service.
2nd This question is easily turned on you. If you are so passionate about the wrong we are doing why aren't you there acting as a human shield?
3rd For all you know, some of us have been in touch with the military and are one signature away from going. So yes, some of us are ready to sacrafice our lives for our country.

4th Shoot....my freaking cammi pants no longer fit....even with the expanders. 45 extra pounds....dang.
__________________

__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com