The real reason for the war on terror revealed....

[cardosino]

"Christianize the world"

9/11 was fabricated, the buildings demolished not by planes, but by explosives.

It's all the Vaticans doing

http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD92005

 

[80sU2isBest]

Thank you. Bush should be impeached for this.

 

[verte76]

I've heard all sorts of kooky things about Vatican II but this takes the brass cigar for sheer lunacy.

 

[nbcrusader]

The decisions of the 1965 Vatican Council included, first of all, absolving the Jews of the blood of Christ.

For example 4,000 Jews caught influenza on that exact day.

Anti-semitism runs deep here.

 

[XHendrix24]

 

[melon]

Ah hysteria. The funny thing about hysteria is that it's easy to spot as an outsider. I should know, since I spot it on a regular basis.

Like this, for instance:

The leader of a conservative Christian lobby group says that gays should be required to wear warning labels.

"We put warning labels on cigarette packs because we know that smoking takes one to two years off the average life span, yet we 'celebrate' a lifestyle that we know spreads every kind of sexually transmitted disease and takes at least 20 years off the average life span according to the 2005 issue of the revered scientific journal Psychological Reports," said Rev. Bill Banuchi, executive director of the New York Christian Coalition.

The journal regularly publishes articles described by many mainstream psychologists as misleading and faulty. The homosexuality morbidity study was conducted by the conservative anti-gay Family Research Institute.

Banuchi called LGBT Pride celebrations held in New Paltz, north of New York City, and other areas of the country on the weekend "sad".

He called on people to "pray for those who are deceived by the lies of popular culture, who are caught up in a destructive lifestyle, and for the children who are being zealously evangelized by radical homosexuals."

As they say, charity begins at home, and if we aren't prepared to deal with the zealots in our midst, how do we expect to have the moral authority to deal with Islamic zealots?

Melon

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

The leader of a conservative Christian lobby group says that gays should be required to wear warning labels.

"We put warning labels on cigarette packs because we know that smoking takes one to two years off the average life span, yet we 'celebrate' a lifestyle that we know spreads every kind of sexually transmitted disease and takes at least 20 years off the average life span according to the 2005 issue of the revered scientific journal Psychological Reports," said Rev. Bill Banuchi, executive director of the New York Christian Coalition.

Please, melon, tell me this guy's NOT serious. Please...

Wow...

 

[cardosino]

Ah hysteria. The funny thing about hysteria is that it's easy to spot as an outsider. I should know, since I spot it on a regular basis.

Like this, for instance:



As they say, charity begins at home, and if we aren't prepared to deal with the zealots in our midst, how do we expect to have the moral authority to deal with Islamic zealots?

Melon

Yes, they're easily spotted, but Right-Wing Christian zealots are no threat to my life or that of my family, Islamic zealots are.

 

[Irvine511]

Yes, they're easily spotted, but Right-Wing Christian zealots are no threat to my life or that of my family, Islamic zealots are.

but they are a threat to my life and my family.

try walking in someone else's shoes.

 

[cardosino]

but they are a threat to my life and my family.

try walking in someone else's shoes.

Do you really believe you could be killed by them anytime soon ? That won't come across the way it's intended in print, but it's meant in a "genuinely interested to know" to know tone.

For me, I have to travel to stated-Muslim terrorist targets routinely on business to Indonesia/Philippines, specifically staying in areas most likely to be targeted (i.e, Hotels/areas where Westerners congregate), so that's where my immediate concern stems from.

As far as I'm concerned, not all religious zealots are of equal danger, you might feel differently obviously.

 

[Irvine511]

yes.

people are killed for being gay all the time. every week. you don't often hear about it, unless it's a dramatic Matthew Shepard-type story. while religion isn't as obvious a motivator as it is for killing "infidels," one motivating factor for bashing a gay person comes from the support that much of organized religion tacitly offers those who do hate gay people. if gay people are, by definition, immoral or wrong, are they then less than human beings? so goes the logic. and i fully understand the outrage a Christian might feel at the way in which Christianity is twisted to support murder. it's probably a similar outrage that a Muslim feels at the logic that extremists use to blow up infidels. it's how i felt when i discovered that the man (who's name escapes me) who bombed the Atlanta Olympics had previously bombed a gay club.

i live in one of the most gay friendly cities in the US, but i still get nervous every time i pick up a copy of the Washington Blade before getting on the metro. is someone going to follow me home and bash me in an alleyway? i've had dates in Northern Virginia and not dared to kiss someone good night in the car because, god forbid, some psycho sees two men kissing in a car and decides that now is the time to take advantage of VA's rather lax gun ownership laws.

and, good gosh, look at what Melon posted. how is that any different, in any way, shape or form, than what the Nazis did to the Jews? far right elements of American Christianity absolutely want to eradicate homosexuality, and while it might not involve ovens, it does involve things like "therapy" where electric shocks are administered to a patient every time an erotic same-gender picture is flashed in front of him. it still happens today. so, yes, some elements of Christianity -- or maybe we should call them anti-gay Christianist zealots -- see the eradication of homosexuality with the same zeal and furvor (the thing that limits their tactics to nasty campaigns and hateful speech instead of outright organized violence is the rule of law in American society) that anti-western Islamist zealots seek the eradication of the United States and the re-establishment of the caliphate.

am i overreacting? possibly. but so is the Bush administration.

 

[80sU2isBest]

If I were going to beat up people for sinning, I'd beat up people who cheat on their spouses. Well, the men anyway. I don't hit women, so for women who cheat on their husbands, I'd point a gun at them and make them beat themselves up.

 

[Irvine511]

If I were going to beat up people for sinning, I'd beat up people who cheat on their spouses. Well, the men anyway. I don't hit women, so for women who cheat on their husbands, I'd point a gun at them and make them beat themselves up.

they kill lesbians, too.

just how serious are you?

 

[U2@NYC]

yes.
and, good gosh, look at what Melon posted. how is that any different, in any way, shape or form, than what the Nazis did to the Jews?

Irvine, kindly stop comparing Christians to Nazis. I understand the point that you are trying to make but, as a Catholic, I find the comparison pretty revolting.

And I live in Dupont Circle and, from what I see on weekends on 17th Street, I do not see gays being discriminated at all (I actually feel like a minority when walking around with my wife ). And you have to agree with me on that the general trend, despite punctual exceptions, is for the more 'conservative' society to open up to further integrate with gays and lesbians.

 

[Irvine511]

Irvine, kindly stop comparing Christians to Nazis. I understand the point that you are trying to make but, as a Catholic, I find the comparison pretty revolting.

And I live in Dupont Circle and, from what I see on weekends on 17th Street, I do not see gays being discriminated at all (I actually feel like a minority when walking around with my wife ). And you have to agree with me on that the general trend, despite punctual exceptions, is for the more 'conservative' society to open up to further integrate with gays and lesbians.

for Christ's sake, go back and read my post. i went to great pains to distinguish between Christians and anti-gay Christianist zealots.

Dupont is probably the most gay friendly neighborhood in America. go to Tulsa, and then let's talk.

 

[U2@NYC]

for Christ's sake, go back and read my post. i went to great pains to distinguish between Christians and anti-gay Christianist zealots.

Dupont is probably the most gay friendly neighborhood in America. go to Tulsa, and then let's talk.

You are still referring to them as "Christians" and use them in a general comparison.

Tulsa will eventually change, as the rest of the world is.

 

[Irvine511]

You are still referring to them as "Christians" and use them in a general comparison.

Tulsa will eventually change, as the rest of the world is.

"i fully understand the outrage a Christian might feel at the way in which Christianity is twisted to support murder. it's probably a similar outrage that a Muslim feels at the logic that extremists use to blow up infidels."

"far right elements of American Christianity absolutely want to eradicate homosexuality"

"so, yes, some elements of Christianity -- or maybe we should call them anti-gay Christianist zealots -- see the eradication of homosexuality with the same zeal and furvor (the thing that limits their tactics to nasty campaigns and hateful speech instead of outright organized violence is the rule of law in American society) that anti-western Islamist zealots seek the eradication of the United States and the re-establishment of the caliphate."


go find an argument, and then we'll talk.

 

[U2@NYC]

My point is that people with these thoughts do not deserve to be called Christians and you, by using the same terms, are confusing readers.

And stop being so defensive and try to rationalize. You cannot be always right.

 

[nbcrusader]

Perhaps a little more evidence of your "far right elements of American Christianity that want to eradicate homosexuality" would be helpful to the comparison considering the ample evidence of Islamic hate across the world.

 

[Irvine511]

My point is that people with these thoughts do not deserve to be called Christians and you, by using the same terms, are confusing readers.

And stop being so defensive and try to rationalize. You cannot be always right.

they call themselves Christians. does William Donahue not think of himself as a Christian?

what shall i call them then?

just who is rationalizing? you claimed i said something, which i clearly didn't. i can't possibly specify any more than i already have, and if you're going to deny the anti-gay bent of much of mainstream American Christianity, then you clearly do need to get out of Dupont and spend time in, say, certain churches in southeastern Ohio.

as for FYM, if people can't bother to read closely and carefully, then i'm not going to be responsible for whatever offence they might take.

if someone can't understand the difference between a Christian and what i've bent over backwards to elucidate, then i suppose i'm not terribly interested in what they have to say.

 

[Irvine511]

Perhaps a little more evidence of your "far right elements of American Christianity that want to eradicate homosexuality" would be helpful to the comparison considering the ample evidence of Islamic hate across the world.

www.pfox.org
www.cwfa.org
www.family.org
www.exodus-international.org
www.godhatesfags.com
www.catholicleague.org

 

[U2@NYC]

It is hard to convince people of your arguments, as valid as they may be, if all you do is blaming them for not reading and not understanding what you are trying to say. What you are failing to understand is that maybe you were not that clear. I am not the only one questioning your argument so, again, do not be so defensive and try to explain yourself better.

I am not challenging either the fact that there are a lot of anti-gay places and people. All I am saying is that society has evolved quite a bit and will continue to do so.

 

[Irvine511]

It is hard to convince people of your arguments, as valid as they may be, if all you do is blaming them for not reading and not understanding what you are trying to say. What you are failing to understand is that maybe you were not that clear. I am not the only one questioning your argument so, again, do not be so defensive and try to explain yourself better.

I am not challenging either the fact that there are a lot of anti-gay places and people. All I am saying is that society has evolved quite a bit and will continue to do so.

i just find it tiresome to have to constantly clarify myself not because i'm not being clear, i don't think, but because some people think the following line of logic is an argument: "well, i'm a christian, and i love gay people; therefore, christians cannot be anti-gay."

i find that really blinkered thinking. since we are discussing politics, by necessity, we speak in broad strokes. politics asks people to sacrafice what makes them an individual for the sake of what makes them part of a group, be it liberal or conservative, republican or democrat, etc. simply because many Catholics have no problem with gay people doesn't mean that Catholicism isn't anti-gay. simply because there are many Republicans who support gay marriage doesn't mean that the Republican Party hasn't centered itself around the use of homophobia as a political tool. simply because people like Dread will artfully argue about Leveticus doesn't mean that the most mainstream, accepted Biblical interpretation about homosexuality is that it is wrong/immoral/an abomination.

i do agree with your 2nd point. the Catholic Church will, once again, find itself on the wrong side of history.

 

[nbcrusader]

www.pfox.org
www.cwfa.org
www.family.org
www.exodus-international.org
www.godhatesfags.com
www.catholicleague.org

Even the extreme languge of your fifth site noted does not advocate eradication of homosexuality.

Pointing to these web sites as on par with anti-western Islamist zealots strains credibility.

 

[melon]

Even the extreme languge of your fifth site noted does not advocate eradication of homosexuality.

Pointing to these web sites as on par with anti-western Islamist zealots strains credibility.

You can say that comfortably from your position. After all, right-wing Christian zealots don't threaten you or try and influence Congress to legislate you into invisibility.

Melon

 

[Irvine511]

Perhaps a little more evidence of your "far right elements of American Christianity that want to eradicate homosexuality" would be helpful to the comparison considering the ample evidence of Islamic hate across the world.

now, if i were to do to you what is being done to me, i'd argue that, firstly, you'd have to call it "Islamist" hate, and i'd then remind you that the people who flew airplanes into the WTC are about as relevant to Islam as the people who beat Matthew Shephard to death are Christianity.

 

[Irvine511]

Even the extreme languge of your fifth site noted does not advocate eradication of homosexuality.

Pointing to these web sites as on par with anti-western Islamist zealots strains credibility.

the eradication of homosexuals would be, in effect, an eradication of homosexuality.

as for the rest, the very idea of Reparation Thearapy posits that there is no hetero or homosexuality, there is just sexuality, and that homosexuality is a perversion of human sexuality that can be changed.

thus, eradicated.

 

[80sU2isBest]

they kill lesbians, too.

just how serious are you?

I'm not serious at all.

However, my disdain for people who cheat on their spouses is indeed very strong.

 

[Irvine511]

I'm not serious at all.

However, my disdain for people who cheat on their spouses is indeed very strong.

okay, fair enough.

 

[financeguy]

"Christianize the world"

9/11 was fabricated, the buildings demolished not by planes, but by explosives.

I don't think 911 was an inside job myself. I think it was certainly convenient for some people, and it allowed Bush to do what he probably wanted to do anyway. I think that it is obvious that his administration wasn't doing enough about terrorism PRE 9/11, but negligence is not necessarily the same as criminal negligence.

I also think that there are suspicious circumstances regarding some recent events in Iraq, such as the beheading of American Nick Berg, allegedly carried out by terrorists,
and I invite anyone to do the research for themselves and make up their own mind on the issue, instead of believing everything they are told by the propaganda machine popularly known as the 'mainstream news media'.