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Old 06-13-2005, 01:55 PM   #16
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Originally posted by Irvine511



for Christ's sake, go back and read my post. i went to great pains to distinguish between Christians and anti-gay Christianist zealots.

Dupont is probably the most gay friendly neighborhood in America. go to Tulsa, and then let's talk.
You are still referring to them as "Christians" and use them in a general comparison.

Tulsa will eventually change, as the rest of the world is.
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Old 06-13-2005, 01:58 PM   #17
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You are still referring to them as "Christians" and use them in a general comparison.

Tulsa will eventually change, as the rest of the world is.
"i fully understand the outrage a Christian might feel at the way in which Christianity is twisted to support murder. it's probably a similar outrage that a Muslim feels at the logic that extremists use to blow up infidels."

"far right elements of American Christianity absolutely want to eradicate homosexuality"

"so, yes, some elements of Christianity -- or maybe we should call them anti-gay Christianist zealots -- see the eradication of homosexuality with the same zeal and furvor (the thing that limits their tactics to nasty campaigns and hateful speech instead of outright organized violence is the rule of law in American society) that anti-western Islamist zealots seek the eradication of the United States and the re-establishment of the caliphate."


go find an argument, and then we'll talk.
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Old 06-13-2005, 02:01 PM   #18
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My point is that people with these thoughts do not deserve to be called Christians and you, by using the same terms, are confusing readers.

And stop being so defensive and try to rationalize. You cannot be always right.
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Old 06-13-2005, 02:04 PM   #19
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Perhaps a little more evidence of your "far right elements of American Christianity that want to eradicate homosexuality" would be helpful to the comparison considering the ample evidence of Islamic hate across the world.
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Old 06-13-2005, 02:06 PM   #20
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My point is that people with these thoughts do not deserve to be called Christians and you, by using the same terms, are confusing readers.

And stop being so defensive and try to rationalize. You cannot be always right.


they call themselves Christians. does William Donahue not think of himself as a Christian?

what shall i call them then?

just who is rationalizing? you claimed i said something, which i clearly didn't. i can't possibly specify any more than i already have, and if you're going to deny the anti-gay bent of much of mainstream American Christianity, then you clearly do need to get out of Dupont and spend time in, say, certain churches in southeastern Ohio.

as for FYM, if people can't bother to read closely and carefully, then i'm not going to be responsible for whatever offence they might take.

if someone can't understand the difference between a Christian and what i've bent over backwards to elucidate, then i suppose i'm not terribly interested in what they have to say.
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Old 06-13-2005, 02:08 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Perhaps a little more evidence of your "far right elements of American Christianity that want to eradicate homosexuality" would be helpful to the comparison considering the ample evidence of Islamic hate across the world.


www.pfox.org
www.cwfa.org
www.family.org
www.exodus-international.org
www.godhatesfags.com
www.catholicleague.org
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Old 06-13-2005, 02:10 PM   #22
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It is hard to convince people of your arguments, as valid as they may be, if all you do is blaming them for not reading and not understanding what you are trying to say. What you are failing to understand is that maybe you were not that clear. I am not the only one questioning your argument so, again, do not be so defensive and try to explain yourself better.

I am not challenging either the fact that there are a lot of anti-gay places and people. All I am saying is that society has evolved quite a bit and will continue to do so.
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Old 06-13-2005, 02:16 PM   #23
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Originally posted by U2@NYC
It is hard to convince people of your arguments, as valid as they may be, if all you do is blaming them for not reading and not understanding what you are trying to say. What you are failing to understand is that maybe you were not that clear. I am not the only one questioning your argument so, again, do not be so defensive and try to explain yourself better.

I am not challenging either the fact that there are a lot of anti-gay places and people. All I am saying is that society has evolved quite a bit and will continue to do so.


i just find it tiresome to have to constantly clarify myself not because i'm not being clear, i don't think, but because some people think the following line of logic is an argument: "well, i'm a christian, and i love gay people; therefore, christians cannot be anti-gay."

i find that really blinkered thinking. since we are discussing politics, by necessity, we speak in broad strokes. politics asks people to sacrafice what makes them an individual for the sake of what makes them part of a group, be it liberal or conservative, republican or democrat, etc. simply because many Catholics have no problem with gay people doesn't mean that Catholicism isn't anti-gay. simply because there are many Republicans who support gay marriage doesn't mean that the Republican Party hasn't centered itself around the use of homophobia as a political tool. simply because people like Dread will artfully argue about Leveticus doesn't mean that the most mainstream, accepted Biblical interpretation about homosexuality is that it is wrong/immoral/an abomination.

i do agree with your 2nd point. the Catholic Church will, once again, find itself on the wrong side of history.
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Old 06-13-2005, 02:27 PM   #24
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Even the extreme languge of your fifth site noted does not advocate eradication of homosexuality.

Pointing to these web sites as on par with anti-western Islamist zealots strains credibility.
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Old 06-13-2005, 02:29 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Even the extreme languge of your fifth site noted does not advocate eradication of homosexuality.

Pointing to these web sites as on par with anti-western Islamist zealots strains credibility.
You can say that comfortably from your position. After all, right-wing Christian zealots don't threaten you or try and influence Congress to legislate you into invisibility.

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Old 06-13-2005, 02:29 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Perhaps a little more evidence of your "far right elements of American Christianity that want to eradicate homosexuality" would be helpful to the comparison considering the ample evidence of Islamic hate across the world.


now, if i were to do to you what is being done to me, i'd argue that, firstly, you'd have to call it "Islamist" hate, and i'd then remind you that the people who flew airplanes into the WTC are about as relevant to Islam as the people who beat Matthew Shephard to death are Christianity.
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Old 06-13-2005, 02:31 PM   #27
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


Even the extreme languge of your fifth site noted does not advocate eradication of homosexuality.

Pointing to these web sites as on par with anti-western Islamist zealots strains credibility.

the eradication of homosexuals would be, in effect, an eradication of homosexuality.

as for the rest, the very idea of Reparation Thearapy posits that there is no hetero or homosexuality, there is just sexuality, and that homosexuality is a perversion of human sexuality that can be changed.

thus, eradicated.
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Old 06-13-2005, 03:29 PM   #28
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Originally posted by Irvine511




they kill lesbians, too.

just how serious are you?
I'm not serious at all.

However, my disdain for people who cheat on their spouses is indeed very strong.
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Old 06-13-2005, 03:30 PM   #29
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I'm not serious at all.

However, my disdain for people who cheat on their spouses is indeed very strong.


okay, fair enough.
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Old 06-13-2005, 04:12 PM   #30
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Re: The real reason for the war on terror revealed....

Quote:
Originally posted by cardosino
"Christianize the world"

9/11 was fabricated, the buildings demolished not by planes, but by explosives.
I don't think 911 was an inside job myself. I think it was certainly convenient for some people, and it allowed Bush to do what he probably wanted to do anyway. I think that it is obvious that his administration wasn't doing enough about terrorism PRE 9/11, but negligence is not necessarily the same as criminal negligence.

I also think that there are suspicious circumstances regarding some recent events in Iraq, such as the beheading of American Nick Berg, allegedly carried out by terrorists,
and I invite anyone to do the research for themselves and make up their own mind on the issue, instead of believing everything they are told by the propaganda machine popularly known as the 'mainstream news media'.
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