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Old 04-09-2008, 05:35 AM   #106
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Originally posted by Strongbow
Sorry, but your not going to beat McCain in this area and I know that Obama is not even going to try.
Well, since you say so it must be true.
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Old 04-09-2008, 06:28 AM   #107
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Originally posted by Strongbow

But he never had to land an aircraft on a bobbing aircraft carrier in the middle of the ocean in total darkness.
This has NOTHING to do with being an effective president!

The subtext to this argument is really "Well, McCain's a REAL man, he's no weakling" which is just shallow, shallow thinking.

And it's not as if all military men have automatically turned out to be great presidents. Granted Zachary Taylor and William Henry Harrison died too soon for us to really say. But Ulysses S. Grant was a horrible president. Eisenhower wasn't particularly bad I suppose but he's usually not mentioned among our country's greatest presidents.

I guess you could base your argument on George Washington. Anyone else?
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Old 04-09-2008, 07:44 AM   #108
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I bet Strom Thurmond kicked his ass


Huffington Post April 8th

Appearing on Fox News this past Sunday, Sen. John McCain attempted to turn his infamously combustible temper from an electoral liability into political strength.

"If I lose my capacity for anger, then I shouldn't be president of the United States," the Senator explained to host Chris Wallace. "When I see the waste and corruption in Washington, I get angry."

But how much of McCain's legendary anger streak does the public actually know? Judging from snippets of Cliff Schecter's new book "The Real McCain" - an advanced copy of which was obtained by the Huffington Post - the answer may be surprisingly little.

Take for instance the verbal-turned-physical attack McCain put on his fellow Arizona Republican, Rick Renzi, which Schecter uncovered through his research:

Perhaps the most remarkable story of McCain's temper involved Arizona Congressman Rick Renzi. Two former reporters covering McCain, one who witnessed the following events and one who confirmed the facts provided by the first, relayed it to me as follows: In 2006, the Arizona Republican congressional delegation had a strategy meeting. McCain repeatedly addressed two new members, congressmen Trent Franks and Rick Renzi, as 'boy.' Finally, Renzi, a former college linebacker, rose from his chair and said to McCain, "You call me that one more time and I'll kick your old ass." McCain lunged at Renzi, punches were thrown, and the two had to be physically separated. After they went to their separate offices, McCain called Renzi and demanded an apology. Renzi refused. Apparently this posture made McCain admire him, as they became fast friends.

The anecdote comes with the caveat that the sources -- in this instance, two reporters -- have insisted on anonymity and that no one reported on this story at the time when it occurred. Matt Yglesias touched on this issue in a blog post today.

That said, the episode fits into McCain's history of similarly explosive behavior. As Washingtonian magazine documented (and Schecter notes in the book), McCain once "scuffled" with the Senate's then oldest member, Strom Thurmond, during a Senate Armed Service Committee hearing in January 1995. Three years later, the Associated Press article reported that McCain dropped F-Bombs on at least three fellow Republicans.

"I'm calling you a f------ jerk!" he once retorted to Iowa Sen. Chuck Grassley.

And in a opinion piece last year on Salon.com, Sidney Blumenthal, now an adviser to Sen. Hillary Clinton, wrote that McCain once told Sen. Ted Kennedy to "shut up" on the Senate Floor, referred to a fellow Republican as a "shit head" and offered a downright vicious and doubly-offensive joke in 1998 Republican fundraiser about then first daughter Chelsea Clinton.

"Do you know why Chelsea Clinton is so ugly?" he asked. "Because Janet Reno is her father."
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Old 04-09-2008, 08:06 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
The American ppl will take John McCain's questionable tempremant over Hillary's ethics and Obama's inexperience.

Ok, I'm in europe here, and the first I heard about McCain and that he's a candidate was when this bomb iran thing came up and I immediately thought what an awful person...but I was at the opinion that he'll have long odds anyway for some reason...I dunno.
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Old 04-09-2008, 10:21 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally posted by achtung_girl



Ok, I'm in europe here, and the first I heard about McCain and that he's a candidate was when this bomb iran thing came up and I immediately thought what an awful person...but I was at the opinion that he'll have long odds anyway for some reason...I dunno.
of course you did, and i'm not surprised.

the left only sends you bad stuff over to you guys while ignoring mccain's good stuff which far outweigh a few silly moment(s) after a lifetime of honorable public service.

dbs
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Old 04-09-2008, 10:32 AM   #111
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Originally posted by Strongbow


McCain was not just a pilot who had some technical skill, he was a military officer. He interacted with other people in life or death situations that required far more temperament and good character traits than most people need to have in their daily lives. Being a military officer is not like being a robot. Leadership and good character are the most vital traits for the job.


and yet, it doesn't automatically qualify you to be president. the military operates by a very different set of rules than the rest of society, and politics operates by a very different set of rules than society.

fortunately, your boy McCain has been in washington enough and is sold out to more than enough special interest groups and isn't even close to being this "Maverick" of the media's imagination. he's as much a politician as anyone else, and has no more or less integrity than anyone else who's risen to the same position he has.

it comes down to judgment, political judgment, and that isn't demonstrated when one lands on an aircraft carrier. my uncle used to ride helicopters behind enemy lines to rescue shattered platoons in Vietnam.

and ain't no way i'd ever want him to be president. we all adored him, but i've never seen anyone fly off the handle quite like he did.
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Old 04-09-2008, 10:33 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally posted by achtung_girl


but I was at the opinion that he'll have long odds anyway for some reason...I dunno.
and most polls show that not being the case.
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Old 04-09-2008, 11:16 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean


This has NOTHING to do with being an effective president!

The subtext to this argument is really "Well, McCain's a REAL man, he's no weakling" which is just shallow, shallow thinking.

And it's not as if all military men have automatically turned out to be great presidents. Granted Zachary Taylor and William Henry Harrison died too soon for us to really say. But Ulysses S. Grant was a horrible president. Eisenhower wasn't particularly bad I suppose but he's usually not mentioned among our country's greatest presidents.

I guess you could base your argument on George Washington. Anyone else?
Leadership has everything to do with being a great president and leadership is at the center of what being a military officer is about.

Other Presidents who served in the military? Ever heard of Harry S. Truman, or John F Kennedy?
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Old 04-09-2008, 11:26 AM   #114
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Originally posted by Irvine511




and yet, it doesn't automatically qualify you to be president. the military operates by a very different set of rules than the rest of society, and politics operates by a very different set of rules than society.

fortunately, your boy McCain has been in washington enough and is sold out to more than enough special interest groups and isn't even close to being this "Maverick" of the media's imagination. he's as much a politician as anyone else, and has no more or less integrity than anyone else who's risen to the same position he has.

it comes down to judgment, political judgment, and that isn't demonstrated when one lands on an aircraft carrier. my uncle used to ride helicopters behind enemy lines to rescue shattered platoons in Vietnam.

and ain't no way i'd ever want him to be president. we all adored him, but i've never seen anyone fly off the handle quite like he did.
Nothing automatically qualifies a person to be President. But there are few jobs in the world where leadership, judgement and a persons overall character are as important in being a military officer. The rules may be different than politics, but the importance of good leadership is the same.

John McCain has proved himself in both worlds. Obama may talk about working with independents and Republicans, but only McCain actually has a solid record of real bipartisanship. Obama by contrast has one of the most liberal voting records in the Senate. McCain's voting record is closer to the center than Obama's and instead of talking about bipartisanship, McCain has actually engaged in it.
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Old 04-09-2008, 11:39 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally posted by Strongbow

Obama by contrast has one of the most liberal voting records in the Senate.
This just proves to me that you memorize talking points and you really don't analyze what you are saying.

Once can't attack Obama for little experience and having the most liberal voting record in the Senate at the same time.

That would be like comparing an 18 year old's voting record to an 85 year old's voting record. One will have one year of voting ability the other sevearl decades. So if the 18 year old voted in a federal and a state election that year and both were conservative, and the 85 year old voted for both througout his life, you still really don't know who's more conservative. One will have a 100% record the other may have an 86% record...

It's just another flawed talking point.
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Old 04-09-2008, 11:59 AM   #116
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


This just proves to me that you memorize talking points and you really don't analyze what you are saying.

Once can't attack Obama for little experience and having the most liberal voting record in the Senate at the same time.

That would be like comparing an 18 year old's voting record to an 85 year old's voting record. One will have one year of voting ability the other sevearl decades. So if the 18 year old voted in a federal and a state election that year and both were conservative, and the 85 year old voted for both througout his life, you still really don't know who's more conservative. One will have a 100% record the other may have an 86% record...

It's just another flawed talking point.
Obama has little experience relative to McCain. He does have voting record from his 3 years in the Senate on national issues, and it is considered to be one of the most liberal in the Senate.
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Old 04-09-2008, 12:16 PM   #117
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If being in the militaryqualifies you to be a great persident, then why did you morons vote for a draft dodger twice and "swift-boat" a veteran?
Also, why does Clinton's dirty laundry survive for years in the press and public opinion but no one wants to know about McCains or Bush's?
They called Clinton the "Teflon President" but Bush gets away with being an ex-drunk coke head and McCain can be a vulgar man who leaves his wife for a prettier, wealthier one.
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Old 04-09-2008, 12:27 PM   #118
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I don't really understand the American obsession with the military or military men somehow being glorified a presidents. It's really not found elsewhere in the Western world and the societies function well and have good leadership as well. I'd actually probably be predisposed to NOT voting for a military person only because I don't attach great political importance to it and I think there are some things about military structure that may be antithetical to democratic governing anyway.
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Old 04-09-2008, 12:30 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
I don't really understand the American obsession with the military or military men somehow being glorified a presidents. It's really not found elsewhere in the Western world and the societies function well and have good leadership as well. I'd actually probably be predisposed to NOT voting for a military person only because I don't attach great political importance to it and I think there are some things about military structure that may be antithetical to democratic governing anyway.


it's clear from these comments that you hate not just freedom, but the men who brought it to you.
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Old 04-09-2008, 12:38 PM   #120
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^I feel exactly the same way as anitram, and since I'm actually a U.S. citizen, I guess I deserve to be dropped in the middle of the Iranian desert because I clearly hate our country.



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