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Old 04-09-2008, 10:15 PM   #136
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Old 04-10-2008, 09:37 PM   #137
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Originally posted by Strongbow


Well, most Americans did not feel that way which is why Bush is a two term President with his party having controlled congress for most of his time in office.
What is your point? Clinton was a two term president as well. Bush did not win in 2000 and won by the narrowest margin in history in 2004. Just because he got elected does not mean he is a good president. What I said was a fact, Bush's business career and missteps in office- deficit, Iraq, economy, are there for all to see. Clinton left with approval rating over 50%, Bush is lucky if he hits 30 now, so even by your standards, hes no good.
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Old 04-10-2008, 09:47 PM   #138
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Originally posted by diamond


Actually the 40 million was well spent on prosecuting Bill.
He got him impeached, disbarred and will keep his wife from obtaining the presidency, money well spent for the future of our country- my hot headed little friend.

<>
Impeached, disbarred for nothing!! Whitewater never turned up any proof of wrongdoing- Arkansas disbarrment was orchestrated by a Mike Huckabee, who also PERSONALLY let a murderer who was a Clinton accuser out on parole- he went to Missouri and killed again- that is how far the Republicans will take their hatred for Clinton. Dont you understand that they WASTED all that money that could have been used plenty of places on a PERSONAL and POLITICAL vendetta. He did nothing that was illegal or that would serve to disqualify himself from office in the least bit. Money well spent for the future of our country?? He was not removed from office, so it went nowhere, and looking at where we are now, with all of the debt that Bush has got us into, I would take the future Clinton was leading us to any day. As far as keeping his wife from being President- she can do that on her own accord, believe me! I am no Hillary fan, but Bill did a very good job in office.

I am giving the facts calmly- I know you interpret that as hot headed, but since you do not have any to contribute, you name call. Thats fine. BTW- have you heard from principal management about that Gone idea?
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Old 04-10-2008, 09:49 PM   #139
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Originally posted by diamond
Only in FYM would the idea be floated of finding fault with the character of a man who is battled test and true patriot for his country, only in FYM.

I often wonder if some of you take the metaphorical "short bus" to your computer monitors every morning.

<>
And in the Republican Party- they did the same thing to Max Cleeland, John Kerry, Jack Murtha, the list of military heroes they have defamed goes on. Plenty of crazies to go around, here and elsewhere.
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Old 04-10-2008, 09:49 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2387


Bush did not win in 2000
Actually, he did win. I know it's still hard for liberals to accept.

Quote:
Originally posted by U2387
and won by the narrowest margin in history in 2004.


You don't know history, then, because that isn't true at all.
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Old 04-10-2008, 10:00 PM   #141
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Originally posted by Strongbow


I said ACTIVE MILITARY SERVICE! Murtha was in the reserves for most of his time in the military. He is a House Representitive and far from being as well known with most of the military as McCain.

Joe Biden, John Warner, Dick Lugar, Sam Nunn, Ike Skelton, Rush Holt don't have the 50+ years of experience that John McCain has on National Security. Sam Nunn and Joe Biden voted AGAINST the 1991 Gulf War to remove Saddam's military forces from Kuwait. EVEN the French sent troops, a light armored division, to help remove Saddam from Kuwait in 1991, but Sam Nunn, Joe Biden, John Kerry, and the vast majority of Democrats voted against it. Sorry but Gary Hart, Lee Hamilton and many of the others you mentioned are not on par or ahead of McCain on these issues nor are they as well respected.
All of the guys I mentioned are highly respected, and Murtha is widely known as the most respected among the military brass. All of these guys are at least on par, and all have had plenty of military endorsements. The point is not to count them and see who has more endorsements or experience, it is just to say that there are plenty of people in public life who have served honorably and are well respected by military and national security officials- career military guys are Democrats, Republicans and independents. Career officers, generals, all good leaders have endorsed all candidates in this race. John McCain is one of the most prominent, but not the only.

Voting against the 1991 Gulf War has nothing to do with whether you are qualified on National Security. Were did that get us? First, he was Reagan and Daddy's pal, then April Glaspie, Bush's ambassador to Iraq gives Saddam the green light to invade Kuwait, all of a sudden Bush has a problem with it and has to go and defend Kuwait and Saudi Arabias rightful dictators? The reason we went to war, supposedly, was that Saddam threatened Saudi Arabia- did he, no absolutely not, he never amassed any troops on the border(google st petersburg times satellite photo). Then because we are over in Saudi defending the most violent and radical muslim financier of terrorism anywhere, the royal family, our friend at the time Osama turns against us and declares war. Then Bush cheerleads the Shiite uprising and does nothing to aid it, leading to a brutal slaughter and resentment that continues among the Shiites in Iraq to this very moment in Basra and Sadr City. He goes in, does not finish the job, leaves Saddam in power and then gets Al Qaeda off the ground. I am glad they voted against it, Kuwait, Israel, Saudi, all those very wealthy militarily capable countries are NOT OUR PROBLEM. Let me know when Nunn or Biden or Kerry vote against a necessary war- they all supported Afghanistan and still do.
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Old 04-10-2008, 10:05 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2


Actually, he did win. I know it's still hard for liberals to accept.





You don't know history, then, because that isn't true at all.
No, he filed the biggest frivolous lawsuit that even his own supreme court had to cover their ass and say dont expect this reasoning to be used to stop future recounts. Gore won, not only the popular vote in nationally, but the popular vote in FLORIDA. I understand and accept what the electoral college is, my point is not to get rid of that, it is that Gore won that as well.Before you accuse me of being a 'liberal' I dont even know what that means - Bush has spent us into oblivion and he calls himself a conservative , have you read Bush v Gore?? Any legal expert will tell you it was a joke- alleging a violation of the voting rights act because procedures differed across Florida counties. That is such BS- by that logic, all voting is a violation of the voting rights act, because the differences were punch card vs machine vs lever that exist everywhere! It was a COMPLETE and UTTER JOKE and the court even admitted that.

I dont know history?? Show me an election decided by a narrower margin than 2004? Maybe 1876, but I doubt it.
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Old 04-10-2008, 10:11 PM   #143
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Originally posted by U2387


I dont know history?? Show me an election decided by a narrower margin than 2004? Maybe 1876, but I doubt it.
I'm not sure how you define close, but I'll give you 3 examples:

Electoral College:
2004: 286-251
2000: 271-266

Popular Vote:
2004: 62,040,610 vs. 59,028,111
1960: 34,220984 vs. 34,108, 157

Percent:
2004: 50.7% vs. 48.3%
1968: 43.4% vs. 42.7%
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Old 04-10-2008, 10:14 PM   #144
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Originally posted by U2387


No, he filed the biggest frivolous lawsuit that even his own supreme court had to cover their ass and say dont expect this reasoning to be used to stop future recounts. Gore won, not only the popular vote in nationally, but the popular vote in FLORIDA. I understand and accept what the electoral college is, my point is not to get rid of that, it is that Gore won that as well.Before you accuse me of being a 'liberal' I dont even know what that means - Bush has spent us into oblivion and he calls himself a conservative , have you read Bush v Gore?? Any legal expert will tell you it was a joke- alleging a violation of the voting rights act because procedures differed across Florida counties. That is such BS- by that logic, all voting is a violation of the voting rights act, because the differences were punch card vs machine vs lever that exist everywhere! It was a COMPLETE and UTTER JOKE and the court even admitted that.

I dont know history?? Show me an election decided by a narrower margin than 2004? Maybe 1876, but I doubt it.
A little bit of help- 1976 and 1876 were all slightly bigger wins percentage wise for Tilden and Carter than Bush over Kerry. Good luck finding any that were closer, we'll see who doesnt know history.
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Old 04-10-2008, 10:30 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2


I'm not sure how you define close, but I'll give you 3 examples:

Electoral College:
2004: 286-251
2000: 271-266

Popular Vote:
2004: 62,040,610 vs. 59,028,111
1960: 34,220984 vs. 34,108, 157

Percent:
2004: 50.7% vs. 48.3%
1968: 43.4% vs. 42.7%
I already took care of 2000- it has been proven that the only reason Bush won was the political leanings of the Supreme Court. Just read the decision. 2000 is out, Bush only beat himself in 2004. 1968 results were not the same- they were not head to head as a significant amount of Southerners distrusted Nixon and the Republicans and went for Wallace. 2004 was head to head.As for the popular vote in 1960, I concede that, it was much closer than 2004, so was electoral and percentage. I should have said he won RE ELECTION by smallest margin ever, as the point was he was elected twice, sorry. I was wrong.

My original point stands, however: he lost in 2000, was reelected narrowly in 2004, claimed a mandate only to have his presidency collapse shortly thereafter. There was never a clear mandate for any of his policies or traits, he lost the congress in 2006 and even his own party's primary candidates took pains to stay the hell away from him in 2007/08. Republicans have won despite the unpopularity of their policies- no one supports the deficit, not too many support social security privitization, 70% want an increase in the minimum wage and some kind of gun control, etc. It is just the media has no understanding of economics and the Republicans use that to their advantage. More credit to them, the Democrats dont do the same. Remember them all evoking Reagan and not their current two term president? Funny thing is W was their hero four short years ago.

Sorry again for being wrong on the 1960 part, Kennedy was probably into some shady stuff re: IL and TX and thats why he eeked out a win.
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Old 04-11-2008, 02:49 AM   #146
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Every vote must count!!!!!!
This is a Democracy!!!!!!!
Especially in Florida!!!!!!!!!!!

That is unless you are Barack Obama.
Whatever benefits you, right?
That's all it's ever been about.

The Real McCain is the Real Hillary is the Real Obama.

They all want the power.

I err on the side of counting all the votes but what do I know?
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Old 04-11-2008, 02:58 AM   #147
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Who is the real McCain



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saul_Tigh
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Old 04-11-2008, 04:12 AM   #148
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Is that the Battlestar dude?

Speaking of geeks like us, Wanderer, which Buffy writers did you like so much?

Did the one, Goddard end up on Lost?

Also, did you hear The Dark Tower was optioned by JJ Abrams?

/geekness out
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Old 04-11-2008, 05:37 AM   #149
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Jane Espenson, Tim Minear and David Fury for the buffyverse writers.
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Old 04-11-2008, 03:50 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2387


I already took care of 2000- it has been proven that the only reason Bush won was the political leanings of the Supreme Court. Just read the decision.
How has that been proven?

I say if you can't work a fucking butterfly ballot your vote should not count.

The real reason Bush won is Al Gore could not carry his home state. If he had, FLORIDA would not have even mattered.
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