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Old 07-13-2008, 04:03 PM   #76
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I did find a audio interview on this Book, with the Author on the Gary Null show

Quote:
Vincent Bugliosi- preeminent prosecuting attorney & author; best known for prosecuting Charles Manson & other defendents accused of the Tate-LaBianca murders. His latest book “The Presecution of George W. Bush for Murder” presents detailed evidence to pin 1st degree murder charges on Bush, Cheney, Rice & Rowe for the murder of over 4000 American soldiers killed so far in Iraq; chronicling the lies & deceptions leading to the invasion of Iraq, and revealing Bush’s inherent malicious character, the stupidity & lack of courage of the media- and citizens.
you can listen to (or download) the interview online here:

The Gary Null Show: The Gary Null Show - 6/25/08
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Old 07-13-2008, 04:03 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by deep View Post
I was not thinking about any thing that broad or abstract

but more along the lines on extra judicial killings


Some in here went on to mention other Presidents during declared Wars for civilian deaths. Again not my thinking.


Let's say if Bin Laden was believed to be in a village in Pakistan, we had a good source on the ground that did confirm he was there.

So Bush authorizes a couple of 2000 pounds bunker buster bombs and kills Bin Laden along with 150 villagers, babies, grand parents, men and women, and many or most of them did not even know Bin Laden was there.
I don't know about the US constitution or US law, but in Germany that would be unlawful.
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Old 07-13-2008, 04:17 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Vincent Vega View Post
I don't know about the US constitution or US law, but in Germany that would be unlawful.
The Bush Administration (and to be fair, there were some targeted killing under other Presidents, including Clinton) gives itself the Authority to do many things that international treaties and laws would not permit.

The Bush Administration has set itself apart with bizarre "legal findings" that permit it to do just about anything.


There is a lot of criticism throw at Bill Clinton because there was a time when the CIA had found BinLaden in Afghanistan sometime in the 90s.
And he did not launch bombs and kill him along with several other people.

The 'reason' given is that it was not a "good" identification. Just a tall Arab, surrounded by several other people, and also there were several members of the Saudi Royal family present.

These excuses are "given" in my opinion, to suggest that extra judicial killings are permissible and lawful?

Let's keep in mind that BinLaden prior to 911 was mostly unknown to the average person.
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Old 07-13-2008, 04:22 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Vincent Vega View Post
I don't know about the US constitution
This President has very little "respect" for the U. S. Contitution.


And his "Oath of Office" is to protect and defend it.

Quote:
"I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

I guess his escape clause is: to the best of my ability
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Old 07-13-2008, 04:32 PM   #80
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Let's keep in mind that BinLaden prior to 911 was mostly unknown to the average person.
Why do you say that? I said who it was ten minutes into the attack. All you had to do was watch the news for the last ten years prior to 9/11 to know who it likely was.
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Old 07-13-2008, 04:38 PM   #81
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We know you are not the average person.

What I was eluding to, is that with 911, it is universally (internationally) accepted that the U. S. killing Binladen would get very little out cry.

In 1997? there would have been more fall out to deal with, killing a "hero" that beat the Soviets and liberated Afghanistan.

Not saying I buy all that.

But, that is what would have been thrown out back then.
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Old 07-13-2008, 04:44 PM   #82
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I also think it is a little naive to think that in BinLaden died in the 90s that Al-Qaeda would not have gone on.

There is a no 2 guy that would have stepped up.

And there was plenty of funding from rich Saudis for Al-Qaeda

perhaps without BinLaden the attacks may have been worse ?

More than 2800 deaths.
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Old 07-13-2008, 05:32 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
The Bush Administration (and to be fair, there were some targeted killing under other Presidents, including Clinton) gives itself the Authority to do many things that international treaties and laws would not permit.

The Bush Administration has set itself apart with bizarre "legal findings" that permit it to do just about anything.


There is a lot of criticism throw at Bill Clinton because there was a time when the CIA had found BinLaden in Afghanistan sometime in the 90s.
And he did not launch bombs and kill him along with several other people.

The 'reason' given is that it was not a "good" identification. Just a tall Arab, surrounded by several other people, and also there were several members of the Saudi Royal family present.

These excuses are "given" in my opinion, to suggest that extra judicial killings are permissible and lawful?

Let's keep in mind that BinLaden prior to 911 was mostly unknown to the average person.
Well, that's right, some things I've read about this administration really have left me puzzled at how corrupt and outright criminal their doings would have been had it been another country's government.

As far as I understood it Bin Laden always was more of a money backer to al Quaeda and a TV person to the world.
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Old 07-13-2008, 07:21 PM   #84
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I continue to maintain that trying to make hay out of prosecuting Bush for murder (or for neglecting the poor) is just nonsense.

All it really does is make it more difficult for those who oppose Bush's policies and actions on legitimate grounds to make their case (though these days, granted, most people accept Bush's abyssmal failures as a president).

Deep, my understanding was that the "collateral" deaths of civilians have been happening since the beginning of warfare. The only time it becomes an incident is when that is the primary purpose of the killings (Take the Mai Lai massare in Vietnam for example).
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Old 07-13-2008, 07:32 PM   #85
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I am going to have to read the book to decide. I am wondering if he is going on the premise that there was never any official declaration of war, coupled with the fact that it is VERY easy to make the case the CIA officials who were opposed to the cherry picking of the intel that was shared with the congress, were forced out. I am thinking it may be a good read.
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Old 08-10-2008, 09:50 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Vest View Post
"{FYI - One of my older theories was that he was shooting at John Connoly and not Kennedy..."

You're kidding right???

It took me a while Harry, but I found it. The manuscript George DeMonschildt was writing about his good friend Lee Harvey Oswald.

In the transcript he writes about Oswald's hatred of Connoly.


AARC Public Digital Library - HSCA Appendix to Hearings - Volume XII, pg

Like I said, it was a theory that I had. Not necessarily one I believe anymore, but a theory none the less.

DeMonschildt was a personal friend of Jackie Kennedy, George HW Bush and Lee Oswald.

Maybe Jackie used him to get Oswald to bump off Kennedy for his philandering?
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