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Old 10-06-2005, 01:28 PM   #46
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Originally posted by BonosSaint
I think outing is a fair technique against someone who is taking a high profile position against the civil rights of gays, a political or religious or whatever opportunist who deliberately panders to homophobia to further his own reputation or career. The worst offenders. Those who are powerful enough to affect those rights through legislation, or whose positions carry enough moral authority (or moral justification) that they can whip their followers into a homophobic frenzy.

I am completely uncomfortable with Melon's position on staff. Legislators' staffs worked on hundreds of issues, 99% of which do not deal with gay rights or lack thereof. While some may disagree with the principles of a staffer for working for such a legislator (or consider him a traitor), I am not sure that his "actions" warrant outing. It becomes then not a political tool, but a vindicative gesture. I think that crossing the boundary of exposing someone's private life should be reserved for those undeniably and specifically doing the damage.
Well stated. That position works for me.

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Old 10-06-2005, 01:36 PM   #47
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Originally posted by nbcrusader

But that is now a subjective judgment as to who is doing what damage. If I can make a reasonable case for "damage" - the door is now wide open to political use of one's private life.
Yep. It already is wide open. And until all (or at least the vast majority) agree that private lives should remain out of the political arena some people are going to get strung up for their's. No one ever said politics was fair and decent.

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Old 10-06-2005, 01:41 PM   #48
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Very interesting thread here.

Many things to consider on this issue.

On the one hand, yes, I believe that hypocracy should be exposed when it goes to the extent that gay politicians actively fight gay rights.
I think that's a general principle that goes for other fields as well. (afro-american rights, womens rights, childrens rights, just to name a few)

Also, there clearly still is the need in the US for a certain activism to obtain gay rights. So yes, I think that involves sticking your neck out and outing yourself whilst proving by living the life you lead, that you're just a human being like the heterosexual part of society. History teaches us that it's just like that, people on the barricades do get things accomplished while there is a whole group with the same ideas staying silent, being oppressed and are suffering from the consequences.
So, there can definately be a political and human-rights-benefit to owning up to whatever you are and are fighting for.

On the other hand, like Angela Harlem said, it simply should not be necessary. People should just be treated equal. Period.
Unfortunately, that's not the case.

I agree with Irvine when he says that gays in the 50s and 60s had a rough time, many lives destroyed.
It's exactly because of the gays who were on the barricades (in many different ways) that society had to adapt and learn to accept what are basically just differences between people.

On the other hand, I believe that once basic gay rights are established, outing becomes less necessary upto the point that it's just none of anyone's business what you do in your private life as long as you're not harming anyone.
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Old 10-06-2005, 01:53 PM   #49
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
But that is now a subjective judgment as to who is doing what damage. If I can make a reasonable case for "damage" - the door is now wide open to political use of one's private life.
I'd figure that in cases like these, "damage" would be defined as a person who, for example, using the main issue at hand here, is homophobic to the point of taking away the civil rights of homosexuals-if they're going to that measure of discrimination, it can be seen as damaging to the victims of said discrimination.

Or, indra's post makes sense, too.

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Old 10-10-2005, 02:07 PM   #50
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in the spirit of the thread, and because i know everyone is just so curious, here's a list of Republicans who may or may not be gay:

United States Representatives

US Rep. Ed Schrock (VA)
US Rep. David Drier (CA)
US Rep. James McCrery (LA)
US Rep. Mark Foley (FL)

Senior Republican Staff

Jay Timmons - National Republican Senatorial Committee
Dan Gurley, National Field Director, Republican National Committee
Ken Mehlman, Chairman, Republican National Committee
Jay Banning, Chief Financial Officer & Director of Administration, RNC

Senior Senate Staffers

Robert Traynham, Rick Santorum (PA)
Jonathan Tolman, James Inhofe (OK)
Kirk Fordham, Mel Martinez (FL)
Dirk Smith, Trent Lott (MS)
John Reid, George Allen (VA)
Paul Unger, George Allen (VA)
Linus Catignani, Bill Frist (TN)

Senior House Staffers

Jim Conzelman, Rep. Mike Oxley (OH)
Lee Cohen, Rep. Melissa Hart (OH)
Robert O'Conner, Rep. Peter King (NY)
Pete Meachum, Rep. Ginny Brown-Waite (FL)

Bush Administration Staffers

Israel Hernandez, office of Karl Rove and Assistant Secretary of Commerce
Jeff Berkowitz, Bush Liaison to Jewish Community

Local Elected Officials

Vincent Gentile, NY City Council

The rest of the gang...

Ed Koch, former mayor of New York City
Jennifer Helms-Knox, Judge in NC campaign staffer for Jesse Helms Campaigns
Armstrong Williams, Talk show host.
Matt Drudge, Headline writer
Steve Kreseski, Governor Bob Erlich of MD
Chip DiPaula, Governor Bob Erlich of MD
Lee LaHaye, the chief financial officer of the Concerned Women for America
John Schlafley, Eagle Forum legal staff
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Old 10-10-2005, 03:17 PM   #51
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So long, right of privavy......
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Old 10-10-2005, 03:21 PM   #52
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
So long, right of privavy......

isn't that the "so-called" right?

but it does return to the original question, and in the mind of the webmaster of BlogActive, if you are a Republican, then you are actively working to harm gay people. thus, your private life is game, as is the private life of Cameron Diaz, Oprah, Britney and K-Fed, etc.
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Old 10-10-2005, 03:31 PM   #53
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Under the headline "Arnold Quits the 'Fag Business," Radar mag's "Fresh Intelligence" columnSchwarzenegger3inside reports: "'Arnold has had a long association with rich gay men,' according to Wendy Leigh, author of Schwarzenegger: An Unauthorized Biography. 'When he moved to England [around the time of his first Mr. Universe title in 1967], John Dixey, a British businessman and well-known aficionado of muscle boys, was very, very kind to Arnold. You have to understand, before Arnold came on the scene, it was common currency that bodybuilders were less than macho—it was absolutely given and accepted that they supported themselves by catering to the tastes of wealthy gay men.'

"Another of Schwarzenegger’s early benefactors, Leigh says, was Paco Arce Gomez, a Spanish millionaire and renowned gay playboy. In a 1992 Spy magazine profile of the Conan the Barbarian star, Arce was credited as the lensman behind a series of photos [like the one above right] from the Austrian’s early days, showing him 'eating breakfast off of very fancy china wearing a tank top and tight underwear.' (Schwarzenegger also posed nude for homoerotic photog Robert Mapplethorpe at least three times in the seventies and famously appeared naked in a 22-photo spread in now-defunct gay rag After Dark.)

"Paul Barresi, an L.A.-based private investigator who claims P.I. Anthony Pellicano hired him before the 2002 election to 'look into' any compromising relationships the then-prospective candidate still had in the demimonde, said he was 'shocked that Arnold would turn his back on the very people who were obviously so helpful to him. In fact, Arnold even met his wife, Maria [Shriver], though his friendship with a gay member of Maria’s family.'

"The Governator has been careful to frame his veto as promoting the will of the people as evidenced by an outdated 2000 vote against same-sex nuptials (today public opinion is split down the middle), and has been mostly mum about his personal feelings on the issue. At least since his notorious 1977 interview with Oui magazine, in which he claimed to 'have absolutely no hang-ups about the fag business.' Apparently, it doesn’t pay like it used to," smirks Radar.

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