The Passion

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Basstrap

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Newsweek article

some people may find this to be an interesting read on The Passion of Jesus.

it is entitled, "Who Really Killed Jesus?" (or something close to that)
 
Interesting read. I'm really curious to see this film.

This is a whole new side of Gibson for me. I believe the film isn't anti-Semitic--I may change my mind when I see it, but his choices about the portrayal of Pontius Pilate really confuse me.
 
Excellent conclusion to the article...

In the best of all possible worlds, "The Passion of the Christ" will prompt constructive conversations about the origins of the religion that claims 2 billion followers around the globe, conversations that ought to lead believers to see that Christian anti-Semitism should be seen as an impossibility?a contradiction in terms. To hate Jews because they are Jews?to hate anyone, in fact?is a sin in the Christian cosmos, for Jesus commands his followers to love their neighbor as themselves. On another level, anti-Semitism is a form of illogical and self-defeating self-loathing. Bluntly put, Jesus had to die for the Christian story to unfold, and the proper Christian posture toward the Jewish people should be one of respect, for the man Christians choose to see as their savior came from the ancient tribe of Judah, the very name from which "Jew" is derived. As children of Abraham, Christians and Jews are branches of the same tree, linked together in the mystery of God.

Let us end where we, and Gibson's movie, began?in the garden, in darkness. The guards have come to arrest Jesus. He watches as his disciples come to blows with the troops. Punches are thrown, and one of Jesus' men lashes out with a weapon, slashing off the ear of a servant of the high priest. Watching, removed from the fray, Jesus intervenes, commanding: "Put up thy sword," making real the New Testament commandment to love one another as he loved us, even unto death?a commandment whose roots stretch back to the 19th chapter of Leviticus: "... you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the Lord." Amid the clash over Gibson's film and the debates about the nature of God, wheth-er you believe Jesus to be the savior of mankind or to have been an interesting first-century figure who left behind an inspiring moral philosophy, perhaps we can at least agree on this image of Jesus of Nazareth: confronted by violence, he chose peace; by hate, love; by sin, forgiveness?a powerful example for us all, whoever our gods may be.
 
AvsGirl41 said:
but his choices about the portrayal of Pontius Pilate really confuse me.

How so?

What I find interesting is I know a lot of very conservative Christians that will not see a movie with an R rating no matter what, in fact I've seen those who judge people based on that, I wonder if they will stick to that principle.
 
My brother - a conservative evangelical Christian - forwarded me an e-mail yesterday encouraging all Christians to flood the theaters this weekend to raise the box office and make the film #1 for its opening weekend. Evangelicals are rallying around this film. Heck, many evangelical churches throughout the country have already bought blocks of thousands of tickets.
 
Yeah I got the same email and I was bothered by the fact that the majority of people sending this email have not seen the film. I mean what if this film is completely off the mark and the few critics reviews that you've read are wrong? Why are you blindly supporting something like this?

The same type of email went out for 'The Omega Code' and I thought that movie was horrible.
 
Thing is, evangelical leaders with national influence like Rick Warren in Orange County have seen the film and are giving it a 'thumbs up.' A guy like Warren has a helluva lot of influence amongst evangelicals. (Wait, is there a pun in there somewhere? :p )
 
Omega Code was released October 15, 1999.

I never saw Omega Code to this day.

On the night of October 15th, 1999, I went to watch Fight Club. And for the first time, I walked out of the theatre, feeling I finally got my money's worth for full admission.

That weekend, Omega Code made $2,000 more per theatre than Fight Club.
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


How so?

What I find interesting is I know a lot of very conservative Christians that will not see a movie with an R rating no matter what, in fact I've seen those who judge people based on that, I wonder if they will stick to that principle.

Well, that he is making a conscious choice not to villanize Pontius Pilate and to make him sympathetic.

But I seem to have forgotten my Sunday school, as I was discussing this with a friend of mine today and she brought up that most versions portray Pilate as sympathetic and, after all, he washes his hands of the whole thing. So now I'm confused as to why Newsweek is behaving as if Gibson's interpretation of Pilate is a new one.

I'm also confused as to all their information on the historic Pilate, as I remember reading long ago that there was very little information on him--he was a nobody stuck in a backwater of the Roman Empire, who just happened to get a big role in the New Testament. Maybe someone out there is more familiar with Roman history and can clear this up for me--it's one of my weakest areas of history knowledge. :)
 
AvsGirl41 said:


Well, that he is making a conscious choice not to villanize Pontius Pilate and to make him sympathetic.

But I seem to have forgotten my Sunday school, as I was discussing this with a friend of mine today and she brought up that most versions portray Pilate as sympathetic and, after all, he washes his hands of the whole thing. So now I'm confused as to why Newsweek is behaving as if Gibson's interpretation of Pilate is a new one.

I'm also confused as to all their information on the historic Pilate, as I remember reading long ago that there was very little information on him--he was a nobody stuck in a backwater of the Roman Empire, who just happened to get a big role in the New Testament. Maybe someone out there is more familiar with Roman history and can clear this up for me--it's one of my weakest areas of history knowledge. :)

From my understanding Pilate was your typical politician. He did sympathize but gave into the mob for political gain.
 
What I find humorous is that Evangelicals will be flocking to a movie produced, and directed by a Catholic.
That alone I find ironic.



--Eric
 
From several sources such as the noted Jewish historian of the period, Flavius Josephus, and the other historian mentioned in the article we have a good deal of information that Pilate was quite a notorious tyrant, known for his brutality.

The situation in Judea was quite complicated at the time. The policy of Augustus was was to limit the ammount of the Roman controlled terriotry that was officially part of the Empire to limit administrative costs. The Empire of Augustus was a good deal maller than a lot of maps make it out to be as a sizable chunk of that terriory was made up of Roman influenced or controlled client kingdoms. King Herod the Great's father had aided Julius Caesar in his wars in the region and that was what put Herod on that threon, After he died the region was divided under several rulers, Herod Antipas (who I believe ruled over Galilee - which was why in one Gospel the case of Jesus was referred to him) among them under the supervision of a Roman offical alternately called a Procurator or a Prefect (I've heard both) There were Roman troops in the kingdom to keep the client kingdomin line. In Jersalem the Temple's arisocracy (this group in Jospehus were reffered to as the Jews, much as in the gospel accounts)of priests had civil rule but had to do what the Romans said and keep the peace. Most of the aristocracy were Sadducees, a Jewish group who were very sever in their interpretation of the law (they disregarded everything but he five books of Moses) and didn't belive int he resurrection of the dead, which naturally set them up to be hostile to Jesus.

Basically the region was a powder keg as the Jewish people despised the Roman control and the Temple Aristocracy had to kee things in line for the good of their people (a revolt would lead to toltal Roman control - which it did in 69) and their continued position. Thus someone like Jesus threatened to unballeance the whole thing.

In my analysis there is a somewhat of a softening of Pilate in the gospels but if you read closely there is a lot of politicing of his actions. Whiel on one hand he looks innocent, in another sense he's passing the buck of Jesus execustion onto the Temple establishment so that they will get the movement's ire. But when it comes down to it the charge printed on the sign above Jesus head say exactly what Pilate's opinion was. The charge, "King of the Jews" established Pilate's view of Jesus as a rebel. In Matthew the first thing Pilate askes Jesus is, "Are you the King of the Jews?" again showing Pilate's primary concern (Matthew being written for Jews not Romanized Gentiles can probably be trusted to be more accurate in its portrayal of Pilate). Thus he was not executed for blasphemy but for political crimes. And he had to be brought before Pilate as only the Roman Procurator had the power of life and death.
 
Interesting, the stereotypes woven into some of the posts in this thread alone. Evangelicals (or whatever box you place conservative Christians) are (1) suppose to reject all "R" rated movies and (2) suppose to reject things done by Catholics.
 
nbcrusader said:
Interesting, the stereotypes woven into some of the posts in this thread alone. Evangelicals (or whatever box you place conservative Christians) are (1) suppose to reject all "R" rated movies and (2) suppose to reject things done by Catholics.

I said I personally know lots of conservative Christians that reject all "R" movies, I said nothing about all conservative Christians. I grew up in a Church where people wouldn't see Schindler's List because of it's rating. I just wondered if they will make an exception.
 
Well, there are still a number Evangelical leaders who to this day preach that the Pope is the AntiChrist (I don't like the guy much, but come on!) and Catholics aren't Christians.
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


I said I personally know lots of conservative Christians that reject all "R" movies, I said nothing about all conservative Christians. I grew up in a Church where people wouldn't see Schindler's List because of it's rating. I just wondered if they will make an exception.


i know many of the same minded "christian" people.


i know some that liked the movie "titanic" very much.

it was rated pg-13.


lots of families saw that movie.

well, I know some that were upset and said it deserved an R rating.

should children be alowed to see titanic?
 
It is interesting....

I was a Catholic at an Evangelical College.......

1st day of school I was told I was going to hell by a beautiful woman....because I worshipped statues.

WE were forbidden to go to movies or dancing. Yet mys sophmore year the college received a letter from a local theater thanking the college for its support. It seems they would have gone out of business if we did not sneak up there for $1 movies on Monday and Tuesday night. I had friends called to the deans office because they were caught in going to the movies or suspended for going dancing. We NEVER went dancing we went Bowling.

Catholics were not well liked on the campus. We were all going to hell.

Anyways, THE LAST TEMPTATION of CHRIST came out my Jr. year of college. Everyone was up in ARMS over that. Wow. My friends the religioun majors and I snuck out to see it. Many of them disagreed with the uproar. Boy were we naughty. I loved the movie so much, I bought the book. The book was even better.

I do indeed find it funny that they were allowed to rent movies. they were not allowed to go to the movie theater. Kind of cracks me up a bit.
 
Yeah some ultra-conservative evangelicals are really screwed up. I do think the practice of venerating icons of saints, Mary and Christ verges on idolotry as well as praying to saints and Mary (Christ is our intercessor the only reason why tthere need to have intercessors to Him is that the Catholic Church in the high Middle Ages so demphasised his human nature as to make such things necessary), but in my experience such practices are far from universal in Catholicism, and when practiced practiced to varying degrees. But really who are they to say who's saved or not... I sure as hell can't say, that's not my perview, that belongs to God and none of us. Some times I just want to hit some of these poeople over the head with a big hammer with the words "Judge not lest ye be judged" engraved on it. And what was that about anyone who hates his brother/sister murders him/her in his heart and about how anyone who says he/she loves God but hated his/her brother/sister is a liar.... Morons. Man you's think people at an Evangelical College might know their scripture a bit better.

And I gotta love the anti-dancing rehrotic. Protestanism is about having beliefs based in Scripture only, but there's nothing in these about dancing be a sin. And tetotalers don't have a leg to stand on either. There's words against making yourself a drunken fool, but drink in itself isn't condemned, otherwise what the heck was Jesus doing turning water into wine....
 
If anyone's interested, Diane Sawyer is interviewing Mel tomorrow night.

I look forward to seeing this movie and finally being able to form my own opinion about it.
 
I couldn't find anything on the official site re subtitles, but another site I found said it is likely it will have them..that rough cuts of the film do contain subtitles.
 
another negative review






Lightning Struck Actor Playing Jesus in Gibson's Passion



02-15-04 Keavin
.
Jim Caviezel, the actor playing Jesus in Mel Gibson?s ?The Passion of The Christ? was struck by lightning during filming of the controversial movie.
The crew was on location outside of Rome when a lightning bolt struck the actor and assistant director Jan Michelini. What makes this more strange is this is the second time that Michelini has been struck by lightning during the filming of this movie, according to a report from the BBC.] Both men were not badly hurt.

Steve McEveety, the film?s producer told VLife, "I'm about a hundred feet away from them when I glance over and see smoke coming out of Caviezel's ears."

Maybe someone is trying to tell them something?

Michelini was previously struck when a lightning fork zapped his umbrella during filming on top of a hill near Matera in Italy. He only suffered minor injuries consisting of mild burns to the tips of his fingers.

The film is being directed by Mel Gibson, who also co-stars in the feature. It focuses on a controversial interpretation of the last 12 hours of Jesus? life. It is reportedly based primarily on the scriptures in the New Testament but is ?augmented? in part with the visions of a 19th century nun, St Anne Catherine Emmerich. Her visions are recounted in the book ?The Dolorous Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ?, and reportedly portray the heads of the Jewish Church as particularly blood thirsty.

Gibson is a practicing ?traditionalist? Catholic, a sect that rejects the reforms to the Roman Catholic Church that came out of the Second Vatican Council held in the 1960s. Gibson has drawn fire from Jewish Americans over this film that believe that the Jews are portrayed as overly violent in the feature.

Some have gone as far as calling the film "demonic" and un-Christian.

In a stab towards authenticity the movie?s dialog is being filmed entirely in Latin and Aramaic. This has drawn even more controversy since most historians agree that Latin was not a common language used during the time of Jesus. In fact, according to most historians, the "koine" form of Greek was the primary language in Jerusalem at the time of Jesus used by Jews and Romans. Assyrian Aramaic is widely accepted as the native language of Mary and was used by most Jews in their everyday conversations. Most historians state that Jerusalem at the time was a multi-lingual culture. Latin was used by the Romans but primarily in the western empire and only in military matters among themselves in the East, they spoke ?koine? Greek with the natives of Jerusalem but Hebrew was also used at the time and was the official language used in the church.

Perhaps the producers of the film sourced the languages used (except for Greek) from John 19:19-20: "Pilate had a notice prepared and fastened to the cross. It read: JESUS OF NAZARETH, The King of the Jews. Many of the Jews read this sign, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city, and the sign was written in Aramaic, Latin and Greek." Or perhaps the fact that ?traditionalist? Catholics still celebrate mass in Latin, a practice ended in the Roman Catholic Church following the Second Vatican Council when the common vernacular was adopted.

Although, there are some who disagree even on this and argue that Hebrew was used as the common vernacular of the Jews.

If you plan to go see the film, you might want to bring a lightning rod along just in case.
 
Dread, your school seems even stricter than my university, which I didn't think was humanly possible. ;) People always think I'm making things up when I tell them about the rules my college had. Though the church I went to in high school was like the situation you described. The kids there weren't allowed to go to the prom, Catholics were all going to hell, kissing someone before your wedding day was fornication, there was an entire sermon on the evils of Titanic alone, and several on any movie rated above G (they had a binder of pastor-approved films in the church library and you were supposed to make sure the movie was on that list before you saw it).
 
I am looking forward to seeing this film. Just to preface, I am Catholic, a history major, and a high school teacher. My historian sensabilities tell me the Bible is not to be trusted as a good primary source. My Catholic upbringing clashes with that. Anyway, a teacher I work with is Jewish and she was making me feel very uncomfortable about wanting to see this film. She is very up in arms over it. I don't know...it was like she was insulted that I would want to see such a film...:huh:
 
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